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Baxter State Park observations on thru hiker behavior in the park

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    • I was surprised at some of the things written in the shelter journals this year in the Smokies. I'm far from being a puritan but the openness which thru hikers wrote of illegal activities and the lack of respect for others and the environment was disheartening. Have a little class, people.
      Lost in the right direction.

    • max.patch wrote:

      SarcasmTheElf wrote:

      The thing that really surprised me was the part about hikers demanding that the park staff help to arrange them shuttles and taxis.


      someone at tos seriously suggested that perhaps a cell tower should be erected in the park so that the hikers can make their own arrangements instead of bothering park staff. :(


      ive met my share of douchebags on the trail, and there were considerably more this year than last.blatantly ignore rules and regulations.
      its all good

    • max.patch wrote:

      i'm glad they nailed someone trying to get away with the fake service dog scam. 2 hikers were issued summons and convicted. $260 fine.


      As as a service dog trainer, I've encountered similar pseudo 'service' dogs. As many of these dogs are untrained and usually respond poorly to tempting or stressful situations, legitimate service dogs are clumped into a negative stereotype.

      Knowing several Maine residents, I've heard of many of these issues and how TH are negatively impacting the BSP experience.

      My prediction is Baxter SP folks will lobby ATC to remove the park from the AT routing.

      Lest we forget.....


      SSgt Ray Rangel - USAF
      SrA Elizabeth Loncki - USAF
      PFC Adam Harris - USA
      MSgt Eden Pearl - USMC

    • Re: Baxter State Park observations on thru hiker behavior in the park

      Wow there are apparently more self entitled self centered a holes out there than i thought. those people need to get a grip and grow up or stay home and quit ruining things for others.
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference

    • I'm going to guess that many of the trouble makers weren't hikers before their thru hiking adventure.
      I'm sure that the number of people on the trail together "enables" their boldness and attitude to do whatever they want without considering the reason for the rules. I don't know what the eventual answer will be, but I for one would be willing to pay a fee and get a permit to use this great resource. I hope it doesn't come to that but I'll participate if it does. The problem will be to enforce any kind of permit system.

    • baxter is already fairly strictly enforced, but there are some determined to abuse the system and do whatever they want to. part of this is due to the growing frat party aspect of thru hiking, including an overabundance of hiker feeds, fairs, festivals, and trail "magic". too many people put thru hikers on a pedestal that makes some so full of themselves they feel the rules don't apply to them.
      its all good

    • Someone once told me that each year's group of hikers is like a mullet, business in the front and party in the back. From the hikers I've encountered this seems to usually hold true, the hikers I meet up here in May and June are serious about making miles and tend to be more polite, more prepared and generally have their heads screwed on the right way.

      The folks who pass through CT and MA in late July and August are the ones that seem who are likely to be just as interested in beer and bongos than the hike itself
      Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    • I just read the post via another channel of media. So interesting. Knowing the mission of BSP intimately I am sure these guys mean business. They are very clearly bound by the agreement made in trust long ago when the land was given by Percival Baxter. They cannot and do not deviate. I am not surprised they are pushing back. I tried to explain this on my thru to others but only got uneducated arguments back. For that matter I tried in the Whites with the AMC complaints and even in the Smokies (the most visited park in the country) regarding the measily 20 bucks. I wish things were different but something is going to give. It is only going to get worse.

    • max.patch wrote:

      SarcasmTheElf wrote:

      The thing that really surprised me was the part about hikers demanding that the park staff help to arrange them shuttles and taxis.


      someone at tos seriously suggested that perhaps a cell tower should be erected in the park so that the hikers can make their own arrangements instead of bothering park staff. :(


      Was he a lawyer?
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123

    • LIhikers wrote:

      As section hikers we've run into plenty of Thru Hikers With Attitude.
      We've pretty much given up staying in shelters during thru season because we don't want to be part of the "party"
      We always carry a tent and usually put it up as far from a shelter as possible at a shelter area.


      During the thru hiker season here in the NY/NJ area I wouldn't think of staying in a shelter because there is a bit of a "clique" formed and a bit of entitlement. I generally don't like staying in a shelter anyway. Like that exiled guy "Lobo Solo" I don't like shelters!
      RIAP

    • :(

      I'm not nearly as familiar with all the various goings on of the AT and other trails, or the backpacking world as a whole, as you folks here, but just in the time I've been edjimahkatin' myself about it, I've seen a continuous change for the worse out of thru hikers and their expectations/entitlement mindset/general a$$hole behavior. Sucks.
      Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less. - Robert E. Lee

    • Rasty wrote:

      max.patch wrote:

      SarcasmTheElf wrote:

      The thing that really surprised me was the part about hikers demanding that the park staff help to arrange them shuttles and taxis.


      someone at tos seriously suggested that perhaps a cell tower should be erected in the park so that the hikers can make their own arrangements instead of bothering park staff. :(


      Was he a lawyer?


      from connecticut?
      its all good

    • A.T.Lt wrote:

      LIhikers wrote:

      As section hikers we've run into plenty of Thru Hikers With Attitude.
      We've pretty much given up staying in shelters during thru season because we don't want to be part of the "party"
      We always carry a tent and usually put it up as far from a shelter as possible at a shelter area.


      During the thru hiker season here in the NY/NJ area I wouldn't think of staying in a shelter because there is a bit of a "clique" formed and a bit of entitlement. I generally don't like staying in a shelter anyway. Like that exiled guy "Lobo Solo" I don't like shelters!


      i cant make that generalization. ive met some good groups and some ridiculously cliquey groups.i dont like shelters unles the weather really sucks. exception is fingerboard and west mtn shelters in the winter.i like the dual fireplaces and theyre usually empty, as i rarely hike weekends. this past spring, when i stayed at fort bastian, i guess i must have met over 150 thrus . yes. a llot more douchebags these days. and not just younguns. met my share of older folk that were a bit too full of themselves
      its all good

    • muddywaters wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      Wow there are apparently more self entitled self centered a holes out there than i thought.


      You must not get around much.

      I blame Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburg for much of our issues today.

      The rest, belongs to Steve Jobs.


      It goes far beyond that, there was a "self esteem" initative that was pushed onto educators nationwide starting iirc in the 1980's. Everyone got a trophy or a ribbon, everyone was taught how great they were, and the parents ate it up and wanted more and more of it. Unfortunately the result was a lot of kids with really screwed up egos. I went through this nonsense as a kid and it took me quite a while to learn how to get over myself, sadly many others never did.
      Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    • SarcasmTheElf wrote:


      It goes far beyond that, there was a "self esteem" initative that was pushed onto educators nationwide starting iirc in the 1980's. Everyone got a trophy or a ribbon, everyone was taught how great they were, and the parents ate it up and wanted more and more of it. Unfortunately the result was a lot of kids with really screwed up egos. I went through this nonsense as a kid and it took me quite a while to learn how to get over myself, sadly many others never did.


      I think you've got a good point there.
      Another thing I don't understand in the schools today is the bullying thing.
      Would they have me believe that todays kids cant stand some ridicule ?
      Heck, there were several years in school that I used to get physically beat up for being different.
      Then I'd go home and get in trouble because my clothes were torn and dirty, again.
      And somehow I survived that to live a productive life, go imagine.

    • What happened to "Sticks and stones make break my bones, but words will never hurt me?" We need to hold parents, teachers, and other leaders in positions of authority and trust to a higher standard, because their words carry more weight, and verbal abuse from them can have long lasting negative effects. But it seems like good advice for dealing with name calling from peers.

      Regarding the physical aspects of bullying, I think kids should be taught that self defense is a good thing, when tempered with patience, mercy, and forgiveness.

      When I was in public school, I was taught the golden rule - do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Has that disappeared from public schools? If so, is it because those words of wisdom were preached by Jesus, as recorded in Luke 6:31?
      I am human and I need to be loved - just like everybody else does

    • i have earlier told my story of myself and one other thru being allowed by the rangers to summit katahdin on a closed day. an awesome experience.

      would i have been given that same privilege today? or would have the behavior of thru hikers who arrived before me negatively influenced the rangers opinion of me? i think i know the answer.
      2,000 miler

    • SarcasmTheElf wrote:

      muddywaters wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      Wow there are apparently more self entitled self centered a holes out there than i thought.


      You must not get around much.

      I blame Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburg for much of our issues today.

      The rest, belongs to Steve Jobs.


      It goes far beyond that, there was a "self esteem" initative that was pushed onto educators nationwide starting iirc in the 1980's. Everyone got a trophy or a ribbon, everyone was taught how great they were, and the parents ate it up and wanted more and more of it. Unfortunately the result was a lot of kids with really screwed up egos. I went through this nonsense as a kid and it took me quite a while to learn how to get over myself, sadly many others never did.


      This is a few years old, but I believe it pretty much captures it.

      cbsnews.com/videos/the-age-of-the-millenials/
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General

    • SarcasmTheElf wrote:

      Someone once told me that each year's group of hikers is like a mullet, business in the front and party in the back. From the hikers I've encountered this seems to usually hold true, the hikers I meet up here in May and June are serious about making miles and tend to be more polite, more prepared and generally have their heads screwed on the right way.

      The folks who pass through CT and MA in late July and August are the ones that seem who are likely to be just as interested in beer and bongos than the hike itself


      Looks like I will be stuck with the party end the next two summers. :thumbdown:
      But will get to finish with the business end in 2017. :thumbup:
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General

    • Just carefully read the thing again.
      Looks like only two possible outcomes.
      1. A quota limit on AT hikers allowed in.
      2. Katahdin's time as the northern terminus is limited.

      2 is not as unlikely as some may think. The start used to be at Mount Oglethorpe remember.
      It would be a real bummer to finish at Monson or similar.
      Resident Australian, proving being a grumpy old man is not just an American trait.

    • OzJacko wrote:

      Just carefully read the thing again.
      Looks like only two possible outcomes.
      1. A quota limit on AT hikers allowed in.
      2. Katahdin's time as the northern terminus is limited.

      2 is not as unlikely as some may think. The start used to be at Mount Oglethorpe remember.
      It would be a real bummer to finish at Monson or similar.


      Yes, but Katahdin isnt the only problem.
      GSMNP has been accomodating, but is already past capacity as well for the bubble.
      I would expect limits to get imposed there too.

      The amazing thing, is the ATC has ignored these issues.

      There is no doubt in my mind permits and control are coming in some form, within 10 years.
      Possibly much sooner now that BSP is complaining.

      These problems take $ to regulate, dont expect that permit to be free.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Muddywaters ().

    • we may very well end up loving this trail to death.thru hikers still constitute a tiny minority of people who use the trail, the smokies and baxter, as well as the whites. you already know how popular the amc is among the thru hiking community. they have a tough job as stewards of the at thru nh and western maine. further permitting along the trail is inevitable if the growing population of thru hikers doesnt reverse its trend
      its all good

    • Astro wrote:

      SarcasmTheElf wrote:

      muddywaters wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      Wow there are apparently more self entitled self centered a holes out there than i thought.


      You must not get around much.

      I blame Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburg for much of our issues today.

      The rest, belongs to Steve Jobs.


      It goes far beyond that, there was a "self esteem" initative that was pushed onto educators nationwide starting iirc in the 1980's. Everyone got a trophy or a ribbon, everyone was taught how great they were, and the parents ate it up and wanted more and more of it. Unfortunately the result was a lot of kids with really screwed up egos. I went through this nonsense as a kid and it took me quite a while to learn how to get over myself, sadly many others never did.


      This is a few years old, but I believe it pretty much captures it.

      cbsnews.com/videos/the-age-of-the-millenials/


      It is crazy how different things are, I graduated HS, went to college and got , not a job, but a career at age 21.. by 26 I owned a house and had been working at the same place for 5 years. I have been working/employed in some sort of capacity since I was 12 years old. Im not saying that is the right way...I don't know what is the right way. Now at 42 years old i feel like I might have been doing it all wrong. I also feel like life has just begun. Im less concerned now about work, work, work and am more interested in making life work for me. Look at the brighter side of things and keep reminding myself that IT'S ALL GOOD!!
      RIAP

    • A.T.Lt wrote:

      Astro wrote:

      SarcasmTheElf wrote:

      muddywaters wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      Wow there are apparently more self entitled self centered a holes out there than i thought.


      You must not get around much.

      I blame Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburg for much of our issues today.

      The rest, belongs to Steve Jobs.


      It goes far beyond that, there was a "self esteem" initative that was pushed onto educators nationwide starting iirc in the 1980's. Everyone got a trophy or a ribbon, everyone was taught how great they were, and the parents ate it up and wanted more and more of it. Unfortunately the result was a lot of kids with really screwed up egos. I went through this nonsense as a kid and it took me quite a while to learn how to get over myself, sadly many others never did.


      This is a few years old, but I believe it pretty much captures it.

      cbsnews.com/videos/the-age-of-the-millenials/


      It is crazy how different things are, I graduated HS, went to college and got , not a job, but a career at age 21.. by 26 I owned a house and had been working at the same place for 5 years. I have been working/employed in some sort of capacity since I was 12 years old. Im not saying that is the right way...I don't know what is the right way. Now at 42 years old i feel like I might have been doing it all wrong. I also feel like life has just begun. Im less concerned now about work, work, work and am more interested in making life work for me. Look at the brighter side of things and keep reminding myself that IT'S ALL GOOD!!


      I missed out on a lot in my 20's and 30's but I sure am enjoying my 40's! gif.014.gif
      Lost in the right direction.

    • All I know is that the Alabama portion of the Pinhoti Trail sucks. Don't bother going there. There's no water and resupply sucks. Locals look at hikers as homeless hobo's. You cant get a ride and if you do, you don't know where you may end up. At night you can hear banjo music. Noises that sound like pigs squealing. Stick to the AT. It's safer. Work with the folks at Baxter, the AMC and the ATC and try to compromise. The AT is the way to go. The Pinhoti is a lost cause. Don't bother.
      Changes Daily→ ♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫ ♪♫♪♫♪♫ ← Don't blame me. It's That Lonesome Guitar.