Rock Stacking: Graffiti or Art ?

IMScotty · Nov 25th 2017, 1:32pm

There is an interesting discussion/ argument happening on the AT Section Hikers FB page on this subject. This debate was precipitated by the Rock Garden on the AT in Southern VT being knocked down. Would love to hear the opinion of our little group; my question is do you think viewing 'Rock Stacking: Graffiti or Art ?

For the purposes of this poll what I am implying by graffiti is that it should not be allowed, should be knocked down, violates LNT.

By art I am implying it should she allowed, let them stand, it adds to the trail experience.

IMScotty · Nov 25th 2017, 1:38pm

I'll add my two cents, I think it has gotten out of hand in some places. Anyone who builds them should view them as 'temporary' art at best. I have no quarrel with those who knock them down.

I appreciate the beauty of some river rock stacking I have seen. I also appreciate by their nature the river installations are temporary, to be washed away with the next spring melt.

The 'Rock Garden' on the ridge in southern Vermont seemed really out of hand. I understand that some people liked it, but I think it detracts from the trail experience for me. Definitely not LNT, not that LNT can ever be practiced perfectly. This Rock Garden has been knocked down, I'm sure it will be rebuilt. Nothing I'm going to get too upset about either way.

max.patch · Nov 25th 2017, 1:38pm

.

Astro · Nov 25th 2017, 2:28pm

Usually I am more of a black and white person on things, but this one is a little tougher. Definitely wrong to tag rocks just to say you were there (focus on selfish interest). On the other hand I have enjoyed some paintings like the American Flag (New York?). Definitely wrong to take the rocks per LNT, but moving them is tougher. Sort of neat to see some of the things people make, but need to not be messing with something they shouldn't. Like stone walls from Revolutionary or Civil War battle fields.

Struggle is trying to find balance for individuals verses the community as a whole. The tagging anything for selfish glory really bothers me, but rest I guess I sorta can roll with the rest unless given more details.

As for taking down a rock garden someone else built that is tough. The rocks do not belong to the person who built it, and beauty is a relative thing in the eye of the viewer.

OK, I have run around in enough circles on this, interested in what the rest of you think.

Socks · Nov 25th 2017, 3:10pm

I didn’t see stupid, or something to kick over, so I just said graffiti.

jimmyjam · Nov 25th 2017, 3:57pm

I really liked the rock garden. I thought it was very much art, you really had to be there and see it, the pictures don't do it justice.

Socks · Nov 25th 2017, 5:13pm

I guess the bigger question is...is a carin aranged fancifully interactive art, or just a pile of graffiti?

max.patch · Nov 25th 2017, 5:23pm

.

Sarcasmtheelf · Nov 25th 2017, 5:33pm

Full disclosure: I was actively trolling that discussion, because I think it's a ridiculous thing for people to get bent out of shape about either way.

Wise Old Owl · Nov 25th 2017, 5:51pm

To say this is art? Uh No. Would real Graffiti be art? When Pompeii was encapsulated in ash it also sealed all the Graffiti and political messages on the walls at that time. The real art was on the walls inside the villas. The art in Spain is on the cave walls. This is old as time and yet we attempt as a group to balance our sense of values based on how we feel about the relatively new LNT ideas. On an insistence of a friend, I went to Maine on a train from Philadelphia and was totally disgusted by the spray paint on the entire trip. I get fed up with people carving the tree bark in parks. Graffiti is for idle minds… a cigarette butt appears miles on the trail and my brain explodes. Back to rocks and cairns, I don’t care if you feel the need to carry a rock from Georgia to Maine; I hope you choose a pebble. I know from my passion I can decide what is art and what is porn, graphic, stupid, cairns, whatever.
All I can say is this will be an interesting, intriguing thread.

here is some of my observations stop the stacking
[IMG:http://images.gearjunkie.com/uploads/2015/07/cairns.jpg]

Wise Old Owl · Nov 25th 2017, 5:52pm

Here is Arches.....

[IMG:https://localtvkstu.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/cairns1.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&w=2000]

Wise Old Owl · Nov 25th 2017, 5:53pm

Maine

[IMG:https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e0/5a/ed/e05aedd2a1fd6738f092024dd5670511--escher-rock-on.jpg]

Wise Old Owl · Nov 25th 2017, 5:56pm

2009 Pinnacle Today its 5 feet higher its so damn big it you could spend the next year tossing it over the cliff and still not make it disappear.
[IMG:https://webbox.lafayette.edu/~reiterc/hikes/pa/2009_01_pinnacle/th_wdscf7733.jpg]

More to read...
bearfoottheory.com/what-are-rock-cairns/

max.patch · Nov 25th 2017, 6:06pm

[IMG:https://i1.wp.com/www.mummyalarm.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Amy-building-stone-cairns-at-the-beach.jpg]

Wise Old Owl · Nov 25th 2017, 6:12pm

This guy really pissed me off... he rolled this up there with his "group" friends and how embarrassing? The very latest in AT trail disasters.

[IMG:https://jameskaiser.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/acadia-national-park-geology.jpg]

IMScotty · Nov 25th 2017, 7:36pm

max.patch wrote:

[IMG:https://i1.wp.com/www.mummyalarm.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Amy-building-stone-cairns-at-the-beach.jpg]

OK Max, I'm willing to give her a pass.

IMScotty · Nov 25th 2017, 8:03pm

Wise Old Owl wrote:

Here is Arches.....

[IMG:https://localtvkstu.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/cairns1.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&w=2000]

My kids tell me I am becoming a cranky old man, perhaps it is so. This is graffiti to me, or perhaps a type of outdoor 'porn.' Definitely not what I want to see in Arches NP. Rock Stacking really is becoming an issue, especially in the west. I can understand the fun, I have no problems with this on private land. I have no problems with rock stacking in public places as a singular, temporary event. But when it becomes a mob, I think it has gone too far.

I'm willing to buy Rocket Socks some Steel Toed boots and set him loose

Perhaps this is the reason he is always changing his name, 'Jake Ace', LNT Avenger. Has a nice ring to it

chief · Nov 25th 2017, 8:42pm

I don't much care about stacking rocks, I prefer carving my initials in shelters. more pissed off people for less effort.

Sarcasmtheelf · Nov 25th 2017, 8:58pm

chief wrote:

I don't much care about stacking rocks, I prefer carving my initials in shelters. more pissed off people for less effort.

If you really want to send them around the bend, start carving "Practice LNT" into live trees.

odd man out · Nov 25th 2017, 10:12pm

"Gardens" of rock stacks and navigational cairns are completely different things. I don't like the fact that these two are always inappropriately conflated in these discussions. Of course we leave a trace when we hike. Trail markers (whether they be cairns or signs) and the trail itself are necessary traces that result from our accessing natural areas. The argument that we leave traces when we hike is also a silly justification for rock stacking. Rock stacking is entirely unnecessary and serves no purpose. So for me, LNT principles say it shouldn't be done. After all, it is just another manifestation of people's desire to leave their mark. You can argue that a rock stack is not permanent like tagging a rock with spray paint, but then if it isn't permanent, they why do people get upset about taking them down? It's because they want THEIR creation to remain. They want to leave a trace. I've knocked down stacks at Mary's Rock in SNP and on a beach in PRNL. As for the thousands of stacks at Yosemite falls, there was not much I could do.

I guess I would tell the girl above "You made a beautiful rock stack. Now be sure to put the rocks back where they belong before we leave."

chief · Nov 26th 2017, 12:30am

odd man out wrote:

I guess I would tell the girl above "You made a beautiful rock stack. Now be sure to put the rocks back where they belong before we leave."

where are you taking the little girl?

Astro · Nov 26th 2017, 12:36am

I wish someone would go to PA and take some of those jagged rocks off the trail for an art project.

Wise Old Owl · Nov 26th 2017, 12:46am

I saw this at Arcadia and its a different take on the problem. They want a cairn to be untouched.
acadiaonmymind.com/2017/07/on-…stone-cairns-and-summits/

LIhikers · Nov 26th 2017, 5:36am

When Kathy and I came upon the rocks in Vermont we were totally surprised, had no idea that we'd find such a thing.
I remember being amused, so much so that I added a rock or two myself.
At the time we went through it I thought it was a good thing.
I'm imagine since then it has become much bigger and I have no idea how extensive it is now, so I'm going to with-hold judgment .

Tin Man · Nov 26th 2017, 9:35am

I like rocks

CoachLou · Nov 26th 2017, 11:36am

SarcasmTheElf wrote:

Full disclosure: I was actively trolling that discussion, because I think it's a ridiculous thing for people to get bent out of shape about either way.

What Dave said

max.patch · Jan 26th 2021, 11:54am

I'm not trying to start an argument, I just like the play on words.

scontent.fatl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net…f6a33b745fd48&oe=60367927

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