Warren Doyle answers questions

warrendoyle · Dec 22nd 2013, 9:41am

Hello cyber café hikers,
I will try to occupy a seat in the far corner of this café and make an occasional appearance for a conversation when I have the time. Although institutionally retired, I still lead a rather active life hiking, dancing, organizing hiking/dancing activities, and directing programs out of the Appalachian Folk School that I built just outside Damascus.
My goal for the conversations will be to answer questions concerning my hiking career over the last forty-two years to help clear up misconceptions. Better to hear it from the horse's mouth (than from the donkey's rear end).
Being 'old school', I prefer face-to-face interaction but, in this case, cyberspace will have to suffice.
Happy trails!
Warren

hikerboy · Dec 22nd 2013, 10:46am

Why not start at the beginning? When did you first complete a through hike and maybe give us an idea of your gear list

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

hikerboy · Dec 22nd 2013, 8:00pm

got us back open again!!!
sorry warren. figures as soon as you showed up wed deny you an audience.

Astro · Dec 22nd 2013, 9:33pm

Warren, now that you " institutionally retired" have you considered writing a book?

Some of the best I have read have been by your former students (Jennifer Pharr Davis, Sky Walker). I am sure it would be awesome with so many great stories. And who knows you might even make a little money off it (help fund more hikes). Shoot, I am sure you have so much great stuff to share, you might have to call the first Volume 1 of the Trilogy.

1azarus · Dec 22nd 2013, 9:54pm

I'd like to hear your end of the story about Pharr Davis. I found a note you'd left for trail maintainers in Maine by a relocation when you went through there with her -- seems like you played quite a part.

warrendoyle · Dec 23rd 2013, 5:22pm

Jennifer Pharr Davis - one of the most precious human resources that the AT has. I have hope for the future of AT thru-hiking because of Jennifer and Brew. She is a wonderful speaker talking about the important themes and they are a model young couple.
I was her coach/mentor for about seven years 2004-11 and it was a fulfilling, productive relationship. She certainly can hold her own now and I remain a friend and counsel/sounding board when asked.
I go into more detail about Jen in my introduction contained in her first book "Becoming Odyssa".
I was very satisfied with the support I gave her and Brew on both of their AT endurance hikes.
The summer of 2011 was a perfect example of "Genius is wisdom and youth".
It will be hard to replicate, or improve, on that 'genius' of 46.5 days and the 'seven-year education' that preceded it.

warrendoyle · Dec 23rd 2013, 5:29pm

I already have my 'one-page' book which can be downloaded for free from my website: www.warrendoyle.com

I will write one book when I can't hike comfortably anymore. I have kept all my journals from all my hikes/adventures. I have a room set aside at the folk school where I will write. It will be self-published with proceeds going to the folk school. I imagine I will write it between 2020 and 2025.

hikerboy · Dec 23rd 2013, 5:34pm

i never met her, but heard an interview with her on tv and was impressed by her humility. a very well spoken, well balanced treasure.
really enjoyed becoming odyssa

BirdBrain · Dec 23rd 2013, 5:47pm

warrendoyle wrote:

I already have my 'one-page' book which can be downloaded for free from my website: www.warrendoyle.com

I will write one book when I can't hike comfortably anymore. I have kept all my journals from all my hikes/adventures. I have a room set aside at the folk school where I will write. It will be self-published with proceeds going to the folk school. I imagine I will write it between 2020 and 2025.

Just read your book. Love your positive attitude. Can I base my hiking ability by what I have experienced in Maine? I will never be a thru. I like taking my time and checking out all the views.

warrendoyle · Dec 23rd 2013, 5:53pm

My first thru-hike was in 1973 at the age of 23. I was in the middle of my doctoral classes at the University of Connecticut. I set out to do an endurance record for the AT. I was unsupported up to Daleville, VA when my Dad started to support me with his station wagon. He supported my up to entering Maine. I then was unsupported until the end. I did set a new endurance record of 66.3 days. I needed this challenge in my life at that time. I got it and even more.
I have thru-hiked the AT eight more times over the next forty years as the leader/organizer of the AT Circle Expeditions (whose completion rates will never be duplicated).
I also completed seven section hikes of the entire AT during the past forty years as well - for a total of 16 traverses of the entire trail.
I am presently working on my 17th traverse of the entire trail (a section hike) and hope to complete my 18th traverse (a thru-hike with the 2015 AT Expedition) atop Katahdin on 9/18/15.
My equipment on my first hike? I made the mistake of believing everything I read so I carried things I did not need so my pack weighed about 40 pounds for a little less than half of my hike.
Equipment is overrated and overthought. It gets in the way of receiving the gifts that the pilgrimage can give the pilgrim. I feel nauseous when I enter an equipment store (the same as when I go to a shopping mall which I try to avoid doing).

grayblazer · Dec 23rd 2013, 5:53pm

I will never be a thru. I like taking my time and checking out all the views.[/quote]

Ditto here. I love the AT too much to turn it into a daily grind.

BirdBrain · Dec 23rd 2013, 6:10pm

BirdBrain wrote:

warrendoyle wrote:

I already have my 'one-page' book which can be downloaded for free from my website: www.warrendoyle.com

I will write one book when I can't hike comfortably anymore. I have kept all my journals from all my hikes/adventures. I have a room set aside at the folk school where I will write. It will be self-published with proceeds going to the folk school. I imagine I will write it between 2020 and 2025.

Just read your book. Love your positive attitude. Can I base my hiking ability by what I have experienced in Maine? I will never be a thru. I like taking my time and checking out all the views.

Am I going to have to rename this thread? What, if anything, does hiking across Maine teach a person? I notice you mention places not to base ability on. Where does Maine fall on that list? I have never hiked elsewhere.

grayblazer · Dec 23rd 2013, 8:24pm

What, if anything, does hiking across Maine teach a person? I notice you mention places not to base ability on. Where does Maine fall on that list? I have never hiked elsewhere.[/quote]

You are a maineac!!

OzJacko · Dec 24th 2013, 7:02am

I have enormous respect for your AT achievements but I have two queries.
Firstly why the AT apparently exclusively? Does no other trail pique your interest?

Secondly from what I have seen and read (particularly the Circle Expedition rules) it appears that you have an attitude of thruhike or nothing. Does that mean you don't believe that a hike of less than every white blaze is of lesser value as a hiking experience?

grayblazer · Dec 24th 2013, 12:23pm

That's a trick question!

hikerboy · Dec 24th 2013, 4:17pm

when did you first find out you were doing it wrong?what was it that made you decide there was a better way? and when did the powers that be make it clear you were doing it wrong?

Astro · Dec 24th 2013, 5:55pm

Not that we are competing with other sites (the internet is a very big place with room for lots of good things), but I believe this thread could be what helps what put this site above all of the rest.

Thanks Rasty, TW, and HB for all you are doing. And thanks also to Warren Doyle for sharing your wisdom (and LW (LS) for getting him here)!
gif.004

OzJacko · Dec 24th 2013, 7:53pm

hikerboy wrote:

when did you first find out you were doing it wrong?what was it that made you decide there was a better way? and when did the powers that be make it clear you were doing it wrong?

The true interpretation of HYOH means there is no wrong way.
Funny how it seems that the more someone says that the less they seem to believe it.
gif.008

grayblazer · Dec 24th 2013, 7:58pm

If someone pays for my hike, I might consider hiking it their way a little. Highly unlikely, though.

TrainWreck · Dec 24th 2013, 8:49pm

grayblazer wrote:

If someone pays for my hike, I might consider hiking it their way a little. Highly unlikely, though.

I understand the Marines have a great outdoor program and they'll pay your way!
but they are a little fussy about the HYOH thing.

milkman · Dec 27th 2013, 9:33am

warrendoyle wrote:

Jennifer Pharr Davis - one of the most precious human resources that the AT has. I have hope for the future of AT thru-hiking because of Jennifer and Brew. She is a wonderful speaker talking about the important themes and they are a model young couple.
I was her coach/mentor for about seven years 2004-11 and it was a fulfilling, productive relationship. She certainly can hold her own now and I remain a friend and counsel/sounding board when asked.
I go into more detail about Jen in my introduction contained in her first book "Becoming Odyssa".
I was very satisfied with the support I gave her and Brew on both of their AT endurance hikes.
The summer of 2011 was a perfect example of "Genius is wisdom and youth".
It will be hard to replicate, or improve, on that 'genius' of 46.5 days and the 'seven-year education' that preceded it.

This was actually shot by Shellie on that day totally by accident. She didn't know she had the camera in record mode. What a great day and what a great group of family and friends. Very, very humble people. I could tell by the way you stepped aside and let them have their moment, and by the tears in your eyes how proud you were and what kind of man you are. What a beautiful day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umcPm5ZZ3hY&feature=youtu.be

Astro · Dec 27th 2013, 4:17pm

milkman wrote:

warrendoyle wrote:

Jennifer Pharr Davis - one of the most precious human resources that the AT has. I have hope for the future of AT thru-hiking because of Jennifer and Brew. She is a wonderful speaker talking about the important themes and they are a model young couple.
I was her coach/mentor for about seven years 2004-11 and it was a fulfilling, productive relationship. She certainly can hold her own now and I remain a friend and counsel/sounding board when asked.
I go into more detail about Jen in my introduction contained in her first book "Becoming Odyssa".
I was very satisfied with the support I gave her and Brew on both of their AT endurance hikes.
The summer of 2011 was a perfect example of "Genius is wisdom and youth".
It will be hard to replicate, or improve, on that 'genius' of 46.5 days and the 'seven-year education' that preceded it.

This was actually shot by Shellie on that day totally by accident. She didn't know she had the camera in record mode. What a great day and what a great group of family and friends. Very, very humble people. I could tell by the way you stepped aside and let them have their moment, and by the tears in your eyes how proud you were and what kind of man you are. What a beautiful day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umcPm5ZZ3hY&feature=youtu.be

It is what you call "CLASS", which unfortunately there does not seem to be as much of as there used to be.

But on the positive, thanks to Warren for displaying it, and Shellie for capturing it!

warrendoyle · Jan 6th 2014, 1:31pm

Back at the AT café after a few weeks.
I will try to catch up answering your questions.

BirdBrain #7048; #7058 - Anyone who walks the AT in Maine, especially between the NH/ME state line and East Flagstaff Rd; the Barren-Chairback range; and, between Gulf Hagas and Logan Brook LT is well-prepared physically and psychologically for any of the AT south of Jeffers Brook LT near Glencliff. I'm glad I did all my early backpacking in the Whites and Adirondacks.

OzJacko #7112 - Since I have done AT so many times, one may get the impression that is the only trail I have hiked. I have traversed the entire LT five times and will complete it for the sixth time in the next several years. I have traversed the entire John Muir Trail three times and would contemplate doing it once more. I have done the Wonderland Trail around Mt. Rainier before soloing it (among several solo ascents of mountains in the Northwest). I have done a complete traverse of the Pennine Way in England, and have backpacked extensively in Germany's Black Forest and inside the Grand Canyon.
I have never had a desire to be a triple crowner because I valued my role as a father/family man and as a gainfully employed college educator. I feel quite fulfilled, fortunate, and satisfied with my hiking resume.

#7212 Hikerboy
"when did you first find out you were doing it wrong?what was it that made you decide there was a better way? and when did the powers that be make it clear you were doing it wrong? "

I learned through trail and error - a balance between learning from my mistakes and other people's mistakes. I learned what worked for me - for my comfort level, for my threshold of pain, for my temperament.
The trail (the task) will determine what is a better way to live with it and to accomplish the task that you have given yourself. You can't change the trail. You have to change. If you do not have what it takes to complete the trail, and don't want to acknowledge this and make the appropriate changes, then the trail will not allow you to traverse it.

There is no right or wrong. However, if you want to walk the entire trail, then your hike becomes a task. You either do it or you don't do it. You either succeed or you fail. If you don't want to risk failing, then don't set yourself the task of walking the entire trail. If the task is important to you, then do all you can to increase your chances of success before you set foot on you pilgrimage. There is a way to do this and it works.

BirdBrain · Jan 6th 2014, 2:03pm

Thank you WD. I thought we lost you. You must have a life or something that has distracted you from answering until now.

BirdBrain · Jan 6th 2014, 2:13pm

I read your reply too quick. Do you infer that the Whites still offer me a challenge? If so, that is not a bad thing. I enjoyed the challenges of Maine.

Rasty · Jan 6th 2014, 2:17pm

Warren
I can attest that hikerboy is doing it wrong.

hikerboy · Jan 6th 2014, 2:34pm

Rasty wrote:

Warren
I can attest that hikerboy is doing it wrong.

differently

grayblazer · Jan 6th 2014, 10:27pm

I think Warren is saying that doing it is what counts, especially if it works for you.

warrendoyle · Jan 21st 2014, 6:06pm

As I mentioned in my first post, I have a busy lifestyle. I will be visiting this site once a week or two weeks.
I will be giving two or three programs at Trail Days, as I have for over 20 years.
To repeat, anyone whose backpacking/hiking experience is in the Adirondacks, Whites, northern Greens and/or the mountains of western Maine, has a distinct psychological advantage of adapting to the southern Appalachians at the start of a nobo over those that do not have experience hiking in the northern Appalachians.
Having done nine thru-hikes and eight section hikes, both ways of doing the entire trail are challenging and fulfilling.
For me, as long as the pilgrim respects the environment along the way (people, animals, vegetation), there is no wrong way to do the trail.
Just don't say you walked the entire AT if you haven't (that is not respectful of the people who actually did the entire trail).

hikerboy · Jan 21st 2014, 6:30pm

thanks for popping in,warren.
i dont know if i'll ever get around to doing a thru hike.after my section hike this past spring, i fell in love with long distance hiking, and planned, at first on attempting a thru this year.but when i went through the smokies, i wondered about the benton mackaye trail. i had hiked many trails in new hampshire that were nicer in many ways than the at itself(except for franconia ridge) trails with waterfalls, trails with stupid steep challenging climbs and trails that were off the beaten path, and thought that id like to come back and do it, see the other parts of those same mountains.
so i decided on starting at springer, taking the bmt through the smokies and heading north from there on the at..if i get to maine will depend on staying healthy and how long my money holds out.and if i finish, i still wont have thru hiked the at, and its just not that important to me.i could just eait a year and save enough money that theres no way it would be a concern, but id rather just hike till the money runs out, come back to work , make more money, and go hike again.
i just like being out there.
i may never be a thru hiker,but i love those long ass sections!!

Mountain-Mike · Jan 21st 2014, 6:46pm

I come where I prefer a LASH over a thru. Hit the section when they are in their prime! Hike long enough to get hiking legs but not deplete yourself (Altuoght I learned how not to let this happen). Why let the destination dictate my hike rather than the journey. When hiking is considered work to you...it's time to get off the trail.

hikerboy · Jan 21st 2014, 7:00pm

Mountain-Mike wrote:

I come where I prefer a LASH over a thru. Hit the section when they are in their prime! Hike long enough to get hiking legs but not deplete yourself (Altuoght I learned how not to let this happen). Why let the destination dictate my hike rather than the journey. When hiking is considered work to you...it's time to get off the trail.

its funny, because as my stat date approaches,if business doesnt pick up some, i probably wont be able to do a full thru, and when i thought about it, i really didnt care.i dont really relish the heat and the bugs of june and july.
hey,its all good.

Socks · Jan 21st 2014, 7:09pm

Mountain-Mike wrote:

I come where I prefer a LASH over a thru. Hit the section when they are in their prime! Hike long enough to get hiking legs but not deplete yourself (Altuoght I learned how not to let this happen). Why let the destination dictate my hike rather than the journey. When hiking is considered work to you...it's time to get off the trail.

I come to enjoy the Short ASH...works for me

OzJacko · Jan 21st 2014, 7:11pm

hikerboy wrote:

Mountain-Mike wrote:

I come where I prefer a LASH over a thru. Hit the section when they are in their prime! Hike long enough to get hiking legs but not deplete yourself (Altuoght I learned how not to let this happen). Why let the destination dictate my hike rather than the journey. When hiking is considered work to you...it's time to get off the trail.

its funny, because as my stat date approaches,if business doesnt pick up some, i probably wont be able to do a full thru, and when i thought about it, i really didnt care.i dont really relish the heat and the bugs of june and july.
hey,its all good.

If you can't do it all HB, I know you will still really enjoy the thruhike feel.
Rather than hike until you run out of time/money try and work it out with work to do it in 2 or 3 sections and "rejoin the bubble where you have made friends etc. You could skip the whole of PA NJ NY for example. I suggest this even though the bit of nasty in me would like you to hit PA's rocks in the rain and heat after 1200 hard miles.
:evil:

BirdBrain · Jan 21st 2014, 7:17pm

rocksNsocks wrote:

Mountain-Mike wrote:

I come where I prefer a LASH over a thru. Hit the section when they are in their prime! Hike long enough to get hiking legs but not deplete yourself (Altuoght I learned how not to let this happen). Why let the destination dictate my hike rather than the journey. When hiking is considered work to you...it's time to get off the trail.

I come to enjoy the Short ASH...works for me

I hope that's not another wood reference.

Mountain-Mike · Jan 21st 2014, 7:23pm

BirdBrain wrote:

rocksNsocks wrote:

Mountain-Mike wrote:

I come where I prefer a LASH over a thru. Hit the section when they are in their prime! Hike long enough to get hiking legs but not deplete yourself (Altuoght I learned how not to let this happen). Why let the destination dictate my hike rather than the journey. When hiking is considered work to you...it's time to get off the trail.

I come to enjoy the Short ASH...works for me

I hope that's not another wood reference.

As long as he keeps it to himself & doesn't post pics who cares!

hikerboy · Jan 21st 2014, 7:27pm

OzJacko wrote:

hikerboy wrote:

Mountain-Mike wrote:

I come where I prefer a LASH over a thru. Hit the section when they are in their prime! Hike long enough to get hiking legs but not deplete yourself (Altuoght I learned how not to let this happen). Why let the destination dictate my hike rather than the journey. When hiking is considered work to you...it's time to get off the trail.

its funny, because as my stat date approaches,if business doesnt pick up some, i probably wont be able to do a full thru, and when i thought about it, i really didnt care.i dont really relish the heat and the bugs of june and july.
hey,its all good.

If you can't do it all HB, I know you will still really enjoy the thruhike feel.
Rather than hike until you run out of time/money try and work it out with work to do it in 2 or 3 sections and "rejoin the bubble where you have made friends etc. You could skip the whole of PA NJ NY for example. I suggest this even though the bit of nasty in me would like you to hit PA's rocks in the rain and heat after 1200 hard miles.

yeah, but this year my hike is gonna be different, being out of the bubble for the first 3 weeks.and i think im better off doing one long section rather than split it up as work goes. its hard to jump in and out of a business ive established.i could always skip up north and flop, but my plan isnt much of a plan. i do intend to move faster than last year, and im certainly not counting out finishing just yet.

Socks · Jan 21st 2014, 7:31pm

Mountain-Mike wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

rocksNsocks wrote:

Mountain-Mike wrote:

I come where I prefer a LASH over a thru. Hit the section when they are in their prime! Hike long enough to get hiking legs but not deplete yourself (Altuoght I learned how not to let this happen). Why let the destination dictate my hike rather than the journey. When hiking is considered work to you...it's time to get off the trail.

I come to enjoy the Short ASH...works for me

I hope that's not another wood reference.

As long as he keeps it to himself & doesn't post pics who cares!

Don't cross the streams

OzJacko · Jan 21st 2014, 7:34pm

hikerboy wrote:

OzJacko wrote:

hikerboy wrote:

Mountain-Mike wrote:

I come where I prefer a LASH over a thru. Hit the section when they are in their prime! Hike long enough to get hiking legs but not deplete yourself (Altuoght I learned how not to let this happen). Why let the destination dictate my hike rather than the journey. When hiking is considered work to you...it's time to get off the trail.

its funny, because as my stat date approaches,if business doesnt pick up some, i probably wont be able to do a full thru, and when i thought about it, i really didnt care.i dont really relish the heat and the bugs of june and july.
hey,its all good.

If you can't do it all HB, I know you will still really enjoy the thruhike feel.
Rather than hike until you run out of time/money try and work it out with work to do it in 2 or 3 sections and "rejoin the bubble where you have made friends etc. You could skip the whole of PA NJ NY for example. I suggest this even though the bit of nasty in me would like you to hit PA's rocks in the rain and heat after 1200 hard miles.

yeah, but this year my hike is gonna be different, being out of the bubble for the first 3 weeks.and i think im better off doing one long section rather than split it up as work goes. its hard to jump in and out of a business ive established.i could always skip up north and flop, but my plan isnt much of a plan. i do intend to move faster than last year, and im certainly not counting out finishing just yet.

I'm confident you can do it in 4 months or less as you would hit the ground running so to speak compared with most. Normally I would say skipping the middle is the best option but as you have done so much of the north the "new" experience for you probably is hitting the PA rocks at the end of 1200 miles. :unsure:

Astro · Jan 22nd 2014, 4:08pm

rocksNsocks wrote:

Mountain-Mike wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

rocksNsocks wrote:

Mountain-Mike wrote:

I come where I prefer a LASH over a thru. Hit the section when they are in their prime! Hike long enough to get hiking legs but not deplete yourself (Altuoght I learned how not to let this happen). Why let the destination dictate my hike rather than the journey. When hiking is considered work to you...it's time to get off the trail.

I come to enjoy the Short ASH...works for me

I hope that's not another wood reference.

As long as he keeps it to himself & doesn't post pics who cares!

Don't cross the streams

Sorta like crossing swords.

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