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The Long Trail 2015

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    • BirdBrain wrote:

      I am feeling better by what I am reading and seeing here. What I read elsewhere made it sound like a suicide mission. I don't mind tough and steep. I don't want to do stupid though. It can't be horrible if crowds do it. If it was like I read, people would be falling off it every day if crowds went over it.


      It's like the Hillary Step on Everest, don't hit by 7am, you're F@#^! With crowds.

    • I believe the forehead is the south side (near Butler lodge) and the chin is the north side (nearer to Taft lodge.)

      Anyway, WTF #1 on Mansfield is on the forehead, maybe halfway from Butler lodge to the summit ridge. Like I mentioned -- it's not a lot of vertical. The WTF stretch is just above the ladders. (I don't count the ladders as all that scary.) You're basically traversing a ledge along a cliff -- extremely steep above and below you. This goes on for about 50-100 feet. At one point your traverse is blocked by a large rock across the trail and the top of that rock slopes slightly downward. I couldn't bring myself to stand up on that rock. Vertigo got the best of me. I got over it by sliding across it on my belly.

      WTF #2 on Mansfield is on the chin, just as you're leaving the summit ridge. You're staring down a slippery steep chute and all you see at the bottom of the chute is blue sky. It turns out there's about 2 feet of terra firma at the bottom of the chute, but then a very steep dropoff below that. I think the trail designers are just toying with us. It's not as awful as it looks, but you can't know that, looking at it from the top.

      WTF #3 was about halfway down Camel's Hump on the north side, kinda complicated to describe. You need to walk about 50 feet along the top edge of a tombstone-like rock that has broken away from the cliff edge right next to it. On one side it's about a 15 foot drop. On the other side is a 1-2 foot wide gap (a crevasse) between the rock you're walking on and the cliff face that it has cleaved away from. You don't want to fall in there either.

      WTF #4 was Devil's Gulch, which might not have been so bad if it hadn't been so gloomy and starting to rain. One spot in the Gulch stopped me in my tracks. Again it's a rock chute, you lose maybe 10 feet of vertical on it, but it's too steep to stand up on so you need to slide on your butt or face in and crab your way down. No handholds anywhere. The rock is wet and slick. This wouldn't be too bad, but one side of this chute has a sharp edge and a sheer drop of about 5-10 feet into more jagged rocks. So you're sliding on your butt down this chute, with no handholds, hoping that gravity takes you straight down the chute, and not over the side. The rest of Devil's Gulch was tough but not scary.

    • BirdBrain wrote:

      I have only faced one wtf spot and that was because I took a wrong turn coming off Wildcat E. I had to jump down about 8 feet to a small square that had a cliff right after it. By the time I realized it was wrong, there was no way I could go back.




      Just after this spot (featured at the beginning of the above video), if you are going into Pinkham Notch (SoBo), be very careful to take a left around the boulder (about 50' down the trail from the lookout in the video). The path is much more obvious if you are going NoBo. This lookout should be familiar to anyone who has done Wildcat E. It is at the top of the lower steep section. If you go right at the boulder like I did, you might not be as lucky as I was. The climb down from this wrong turn looks very steep but normal until it is too late. By the time you realize it is the wrong turn, you are trapped by a sloping ledge at your left and nothing to grab onto that would allow you to turn around. I did the only thing I could. I inched down until I lost traction and jumped the remaining 8' or so to a small patch and hoped for the best.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • I've skied Wildcat many times. When I did the AT over Wildcat, I started from Nineteen Mile Brook trail and worked my way south, so mostly it was a mad descent. I found it gnarly and never-ending, but not that scary. It was a long time ago. I remember standing at the lift station and thinking, great, it's all downhill from here. No sweat. On skis, I'd have made it to the bottom of the mountain in five minutes or less. That's what made the descent feel so interminable.

      Part of the appeal of skiing at Wildcat was the great views across the valley. It's famous for being brutally cold and often icy. It's a mountain only hard-core skiers can love. My wife won't ski there.

    • rafe wrote:

      I've skied Wildcat many times. When I did the AT over Wildcat, I started from Nineteen Mile Brook trail and worked my way south, so mostly it was a mad descent. I found it gnarly and never-ending, but not that scary. It was a long time ago. I remember standing at the lift station and thinking, great, it's all downhill from here. No sweat. On skis, I'd have made it to the bottom of the mountain in five minutes or less. That's what made the descent feel so interminable.

      Part of the appeal of skiing at Wildcat was the great views across the valley. It's famous for being brutally cold and often icy. It's a mountain only hard-core skiers can love. My wife won't ski there.

      the views from the wildcats and carters can't be beat
      its all good

    • hikerboy wrote:

      rafe wrote:

      I've skied Wildcat many times. When I did the AT over Wildcat, I started from Nineteen Mile Brook trail and worked my way south, so mostly it was a mad descent. I found it gnarly and never-ending, but not that scary. It was a long time ago. I remember standing at the lift station and thinking, great, it's all downhill from here. No sweat. On skis, I'd have made it to the bottom of the mountain in five minutes or less. That's what made the descent feel so interminable.

      Part of the appeal of skiing at Wildcat was the great views across the valley. It's famous for being brutally cold and often icy. It's a mountain only hard-core skiers can love. My wife won't ski there.

      the views from the wildcats and carters can't be beat


      Mt Hight. Thanks to MM and Chin Music I had the best stealth site I have seen so far. I slept about 100 yards from the peak. Many great views from several spots nearby, but I feel Mt Hight has the best view in the Carter Moriah Range. Moriah was good. There were several good views of the Presidentials from the Carters and the Wildcats. Carter Dome was a bust. No view from that "dome".
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • I am having a thought. Before I express that thought, I have a confession. As much as I hate shelters, I actually slept in a couple during my final week across New Hampshire. I did so because I was alone on 6 straight nights and they looked a bit more inviting that way.

      Now to my thought. It occurs to me that one could go tentless on the Long Trail with a bit of planning. I am not willing to do that, but I am considering a compromise.

      I could carry my tent until the Maine Junction. I doubt I will be sleeping in any shelters through that area. At the Inn I could mail my tent home and carry my bivy the rest if the way. I am already planning a mail drop of supplies to the Inn.

      My thought is that I would likely sleep in many of the shelters after I get away from the AT crowds and would have the bivy as a backup when I did not sleep in a shelter. This would save me some weight in the tough areas where weight savings would be important.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • For what it's worth, I was glad of my tent on the NPT - which is ridiculously well supplied with lean-tos, at least in the Western High Peaks area. I had a late start on the day out of Lake Placid, and there was no way I was going to make the first lean-to (Moose Lake) by daylight - it's about nine miles in. There were at least two designated tent sites (The Flume/Chubb River, 5.9 miles, and Wanika Falls, 6.5 miles) between the trailhead and there, and I took Wanika Falls. Finding my way to Moose Lake by headlamp in the rain over alternating areas of sucking mud and slippery gneiss would have been rough, and I was glad I had other options.

      Of course, if I had a bivy, I could probably have done more or less the same as what you plan, but in wet weather I like being able to spread gear out in a tent vestibule (or, of course, a shelter).

      That said, our hiking styles are different. I go a little farther in the direction of weight and comfort in camp, and you go farther in the direction of "light and fast." There, I said it, I'm more a camper and you're more a hiker. KillMe
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.

    • I wouldn't dare go tent-less into the woods if I were planning to stay overnight. There are all kinds of reasons you might not make it to the shelter, or might not like it when you get there, or it might be full, etc. etc. I'm not anti-shelter in any way... but I don't want to be 100% dependent on them.

    • I do not have a vast resume of hiking experience, but as far as I have been I am yet to fall short of a planned distance. I have travelled further, but have not fallen short. If that trend continues, I have only one planned spot north of the Maine Junction where there is no shelter available. If it is raining, I guess I will push on to the next shelter. I am not a big fan of my bivy, but it would suffice where needed. And thank you for calling me a hiker. And yes, I am no camper.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • rafe wrote:

      I wouldn't dare go tent-less into the woods if I were planning to stay overnight. There are all kinds of reasons you might not make it to the shelter, or might not like it when you get there, or it might be full, etc. etc. I'm not anti-shelter in any way... but I don't want to be 100% dependent on them.


      I agree. It is a bad plan to not carry a shelter. A bivy is a minimal if not a poor shelter. I saw a few hikers without shelters of their own. I can't imagine hiking that way.

      The other thing about my thought is that I am reading that there is little danger of shelters being full north of the Maine Junction. That is why I am not considering carrying this until after the Maine Junction.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by BirdBrain ().

    • BirdBrain wrote:


      The other thing about my thought is that I am reading that there is little danger of shelters being full north of the Maine Junction. That is why I am not considering carrying this until after the Maine Junction.


      The probability may be low but it is not zero. I have seen full and near-full shelters on the LT (north of Maine Jct.) on a few occasions. It's no different from the AT in this regard. You have your college outings, extended family outings, summer camp and Boy Scout groups, and so on.

    • For what it is worth, I carried my bivy through the 100 mile wilderness and used it every day on that walk. I ditched it in Monson, not because it was not functional or too confining, but rather because it was too hot. I slept on top of it half the time. I am fine with using it when iI have no other option. I would say the odds are low I will carry it next year. I am concidering it though. I am not concidering going without a shelter.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • rafe wrote:

      I wouldn't dare go tent-less into the woods if I were planning to stay overnight. There are all kinds of reasons you might not make it to the shelter, or might not like it when you get there, or it might be full, etc. etc. I'm not anti-shelter in any way... but I don't want to be 100% dependent on them.


      I sleep cold in shelters, my cozy little tent is like another layer to keep me warm.
      I may grow old but I'll never grow up.

    • Drybones wrote:

      rafe wrote:

      I wouldn't dare go tent-less into the woods if I were planning to stay overnight. There are all kinds of reasons you might not make it to the shelter, or might not like it when you get there, or it might be full, etc. etc. I'm not anti-shelter in any way... but I don't want to be 100% dependent on them.


      I sleep cold in shelters, my cozy little tent is like another layer to keep me warm.


      True, that. But it's a bit of extra hassle to set up/take down. And extra weight if you end up carrying a wet tent the next day. Always a tradeoff.

    • TrafficJam wrote:

      WanderingStovie wrote:

      Last year on my Maryland yoyo, I carried enough space blankets and tape to make a shelter, instead of a tent, tarp, or bivouac sack.


      Did you use it?


      That is one of the questions I ask myself about every piece of gear in my pack after I get back from a walk. If the answer is no, then that item gets the 3rd degree. There are some emergency items that I will carry and hope they never get used. I view unused items carried for convenience or just in case or because of bad planning as complete failures on my part. For me that includes water in bottles when I come to a stream or food in my pack when I come to a resupply point. That is real weight I did not need to carry. I am a wimp. I don't like carrying extra stuff because of bad planning on my part. I try not to repeat mistakes.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      WanderingStovie wrote:

      Last year on my Maryland yoyo, I carried enough space blankets and tape to make a shelter, instead of a tent, tarp, or bivouac sack.


      Did you use it?


      That is one of the questions I ask myself about every piece of gear in my pack after I get back from a walk. If the answer is no, then that item gets the 3rd degree. There are some emergency items that I will carry and hope they never get used. I view unused items carried for convenience or just in case or because of bad planning as complete failures on my part. I try not to repeat mistakes.


      With all them words... you didn't answer the question.

    • Drybones wrote:

      rafe wrote:

      I wouldn't dare go tent-less into the woods if I were planning to stay overnight. There are all kinds of reasons you might not make it to the shelter, or might not like it when you get there, or it might be full, etc. etc. I'm not anti-shelter in any way... but I don't want to be 100% dependent on them.


      I sleep cold in shelters, my cozy little tent is like another layer to keep me warm.


      Sorry if I'm derailing another thread but that reminds me of something that happened on my hike to Erwin when I was staying at the barn. I planned on sleeping on the platform so I could see the sunrise the next morning. When I got there, there was a tent set up on the platform with a small space next to the tent. I claimed that little spot and set up my sleeping pad and bag. Eventually, the person with the tent moved it, leaving the space empty except my stuff. There were a lot of people at the barn but no one would set their stuff up next to mine. It was really awkward and I started getting cold so decided to sleep in my tent. As I was moving my stuff, someone said, "Yes! Now I can sleep on the platform". ?(
      Lost in the right direction.

    • BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      WanderingStovie wrote:

      Last year on my Maryland yoyo, I carried enough space blankets and tape to make a shelter, instead of a tent, tarp, or bivouac sack.


      Did you use it?


      That is one of the questions I ask myself about every piece of gear in my pack after I get back from a walk. If the answer is no, then that item gets the 3rd degree. There are some emergency items that I will carry and hope they never get used. I view unused items carried for convenience or just in case or because of bad planning as complete failures on my part. For me that includes water in bottles when I come to a stream or food in my pack when I come to a resupply point. That is real weight I did not need to carry. I am a wimp. I don't like carrying extra stuff because of bad planning on my part. I try not to repeat mistakes.

      When I'm just doing an overnight, instead of appreciating that I can pack really light, my mentality is that I can add extra luxuries because I have "unfulfilled" weight available. ^^
      Lost in the right direction.

    • rafe wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      WanderingStovie wrote:

      Last year on my Maryland yoyo, I carried enough space blankets and tape to make a shelter, instead of a tent, tarp, or bivouac sack.


      Did you use it?


      That is one of the questions I ask myself about every piece of gear in my pack after I get back from a walk. If the answer is no, then that item gets the 3rd degree. There are some emergency items that I will carry and hope they never get used. I view unused items carried for convenience or just in case or because of bad planning as complete failures on my part. I try not to repeat mistakes.


      With all them words... you didn't answer the question.


      It was not directed to me. However, as usual, it did not stop me from commenting.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • BirdBrain wrote:

      rafe wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      WanderingStovie wrote:

      Last year on my Maryland yoyo, I carried enough space blankets and tape to make a shelter, instead of a tent, tarp, or bivouac sack.


      Did you use it?


      That is one of the questions I ask myself about every piece of gear in my pack after I get back from a walk. If the answer is no, then that item gets the 3rd degree. There are some emergency items that I will carry and hope they never get used. I view unused items carried for convenience or just in case or because of bad planning as complete failures on my part. I try not to repeat mistakes.


      With all them words... you didn't answer the question.



      It was not directed to me. However, as usual, it did not stop me from commenting.


      Oops, sorry! I need to get away from the computer for a bit.

    • rafe wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      WanderingStovie wrote:

      Last year on my Maryland yoyo, I carried enough space blankets and tape to make a shelter, instead of a tent, tarp, or bivouac sack.


      Did you use it?


      That is one of the questions I ask myself about every piece of gear in my pack after I get back from a walk. If the answer is no, then that item gets the 3rd degree. There are some emergency items that I will carry and hope they never get used. I view unused items carried for convenience or just in case or because of bad planning as complete failures on my part. I try not to repeat mistakes.


      With all them words... you didn't answer the question.


      Politician!
      I may grow old but I'll never grow up.

    • TrafficJam wrote:

      WanderingStovie wrote:

      Last year on my Maryland yoyo, I carried enough space blankets and tape to make a shelter, instead of a tent, tarp, or bivouac sack.


      Did you use it?

      The three space blankets are unopened in their original packaging, but I used the tape when the tread separated from the front half of my shoes.
      I am human and I need to be loved - just like everybody else does

    • rafe wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      WanderingStovie wrote:

      Last year on my Maryland yoyo, I carried enough space blankets and tape to make a shelter, instead of a tent, tarp, or bivouac sack.


      Did you use it?


      That is one of the questions I ask myself about every piece of gear in my pack after I get back from a walk. If the answer is no, then that item gets the 3rd degree. There are some emergency items that I will carry and hope they never get used. I view unused items carried for convenience or just in case or because of bad planning as complete failures on my part. I try not to repeat mistakes.


      With all them words... you didn't answer the question.


      Perhaps he thought he was running for an office. :D
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General

    • rafe wrote:

      Drybones wrote:

      rafe wrote:

      I wouldn't dare go tent-less into the woods if I were planning to stay overnight. There are all kinds of reasons you might not make it to the shelter, or might not like it when you get there, or it might be full, etc. etc. I'm not anti-shelter in any way... but I don't want to be 100% dependent on them.


      I sleep cold in shelters, my cozy little tent is like another layer to keep me warm.


      True, that. But it's a bit of extra hassle to set up/take down. And extra weight if you end up carrying a wet tent the next day. Always a tradeoff.


      That is what has me using the shelters some times. I much prefer my tent, I do not enjoy carrying around a wet tent the next day either.
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General