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Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

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    • Rafe, you and I have to go hiking someday. I'm another engineer who does engineer-level plannng.

      BirdBrain wrote:

      It does make sense. I am sure a large percentage if people would hate hiking if they spent the time planning that I do. I just enjoy the planning. For me it is exciting.


      Me, too. When I can't be hiking (and my wife's not about), the next most fun I can have is debriefing the last hike or planning the next one!

      But ... once I've got my route card together, I don't go quite to your extent on planning consumables. I kind of made the decision a while ago that starting out from a water source with 2 litres of water, starting with an extra few ounces of stove fuel, or starting a three-day weekend with an extra dinner and breakfast is an acceptable load. I'm also kind of lazy, and I'll often carry an extra litre of water to avoid descending to a water source and climbing up again. That's also engineer style: design in a safety margin and then don't worry too much about it.

      Another example: I never make a campfire. Last trip I made two. The tinderbox I've been carrying for the last couple of years without opening it suddenly paid for its weight.
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.

    • AnotherKevin wrote:

      I'm also kind of lazy, and I'll often carry an extra litre of water to avoid descending to a water source and climbing up again. That's also engineer style: design in a safety margin and then don't worry too much about it.


      How do you know it is a safety margin if you do not plan for where reliable water can be found and then calculate what said safety margin will be? That is like saying I plan on buying 15% extra shingles for my roof, but I am not going to measure my roof to see what it would take without a safety margin. If you do not calculate the roof coverage, you are guessing and will sometimes run short. If you calculate it, your odds are greatly diminished.

      The previous question and statement is rhetoric on my part. It is obvious I am not going to get real answers. My view has been misrepresented. I do not ever plan on unreliable water sources. I research what sources might run dry and cross them off. I calculate how much water I should carry to safely make it to the next reliable water source. Somehow that plan equals a possibility of going thirsty because water sources that I do not plan for might run dry. I am using a new word "reliable" because I think the word "known" has been misunderstood.

      I am on this site for one purpose. I am here to gain knowledge from people who have done it more than me. If I am just going to be criticized for things I am not saying, instead of getting that said knowledge, I see little purpose behind this quest. I am positive the knowledge is there. I am positive people are succeeding. I am positive my quest to gain said knowledge from said people is responsible. However, if all I am going to get is a kneejerk defensive mischaracterization of my thoughts, I am wasting my time.

      If you think I am overreacting, prove me wrong and answer my question. How the hell do you know it is a safety factor if you don't calculate the likely amount that will get you to the next known.... oops.... reliable water source?

      Taking a break. I need to listen and hope I gain the knowledge I need to succeed. Asking questions offends people.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • rafe wrote:

      Alright, here's that paper I wrote back in 1990. Like I said, it was written in jest, not sure who in the world has read it aside from myself. Some of it turned out to be BS, some of it was a pretty good guess. It was a strange time in my life. In November of that year I met Merry, and most things in life have gone better since then.



      I love that you sleeping bag was from Hermans!! That's such a blast from the past ! I bought one of my first sleeping bags there also a 20* slumberjack mummy bag ... I just tossed it about 3 years ago ... The zipper was all messed up
      RIAP

    • BB, I'm quoting you from several posts back: "The trails are full of people who are willing to spent hundreds of dollars to save ounces, but are willing to carry pounds because they don't want to be bothered with a detailed plan."

      My responses...
      1. Once I'm on the trail, I mostly like to give my brain a rest and just let things flow.
      2. Distances between waypoints don't change, you can trust the guides and plan around those. Conditions of water sources change all the time, making it much more difficult to plan around those.
      3. Plans are made to be broken. Flexibility is the key. I sure would like to get to that next shelter, but if it's getting late in the day and it looks like I'm running out of steam, it's time to start thinking about Plan B.
      4. Too much planning smacks of hubris. The trail teaches us about humility. Nature always has surprises in store for us.
      5. It's all about tradeoffs. That's the engineer in me talking.
      6. I kiss a blaze at least once every day. I've always felt safe on the AT and haven't had any horrific misadventures to report. I'm not a religious or superstitious person, but this is my "thanks" to the trail for keeping me safe. This also relates to humility (see #4.)

    • rafe wrote:

      BB, I'm quoting you from several posts back: "The trails are full of people who are willing to spent hundreds of dollars to save ounces, but are willing to carry pounds because they don't want to be bothered with a detailed plan."

      My responses...
      1. Once I'm on the trail, I mostly like to give my brain a rest and just let things flow.
      2. Distances between waypoints don't change, you can trust the guides and plan around those. Conditions of water sources change all the time, making it much more difficult to plan around those.
      3. Plans are made to be broken. Flexibility is the key. I sure would like to get to that next shelter, but if it's getting late in the day and it looks like I'm running out of steam, it's time to start thinking about Plan B.
      4. Too much planning smacks of hubris. The trail teaches us about humility. Nature always has surprises in store for us.
      5. It's all about tradeoffs. That's the engineer in me talking.
      6. I kiss a blaze at least once every day. I've always felt safe on the AT and haven't had any horrific misadventures to report. I'm not a religious or superstitious person, but this is my "thanks" to the trail for keeping me safe. This also relates to humility (see #4.)


      this.
      the at is fairly easy to plan due to the atguide which lists both dependable and unreliable sources. in the south in the spring water is rarely a problem. i never carried more than a liter, except for the occasions i ran into a spring before camp, and knew the site's water source was a slog. i ve been dehydrated on the verge of heat exhaustion in the whites, where i had made a number of mistakes, not because of poor planning, but because i didnt take a few factors into account. i had taken a shuttle from pinkham notch to the liberty springs trailhead, but the shuttle didnt leave me off till 10:45am.it was hot and dry, with little humidity in the air and temps in the upper 80s.my plan was to hike to garfield ridge campsite, which was a bit ambitious for a first day out, given i didnt get to the trailhead till late in the day.

      mistake#1- i didnt drink any water all morning except for 2 cups of coffee, while i waited for the shuttle, didnt drink at all till i was on the trail. i carried a 3L bladder which i felt would be sufficient for the day.

      2- i had forgotten how difficult that first climb always is, and it took me a while to reach liberty springs campsite. by then i had drank half of my water and i hadn't even hit the ridge yet.

      3- given the late,slow start, i decided to push immediately on, instead of refilling my bladder. i was almost completely out of water by the time i had hit lincoln, with no available water till garfield ridge.

      4 - for day snacks i had brought a pound of salted cashews and a pound of dried apricots. neither would provide me with any moisture.heat and lo humidity were sucking the moisture from my body at the same time i grew hungry. by the time i hit the summit of lafayette i had begun to get the chills, although the temperature was easily in the 80s even on the ridge, and i felt nauseous.


      i lucked out when i ran into 2 backpackers doing a bonds loop hike, and had extra water to spare at the base of mt garfield.it took the better part of the next day for my body to recover.


      since then, ive been much more conservative in planning short trips.

      the longer you're out the harder it is to stick to a plan. i just check the guidebook in the morning so i dont get surprised again.

      when rasty was with me on the benton mackaye,water was so plentiful, we kept on saying"this is the very last source until the next source>" which was usually 150 yards ahead. the only stretch that water was an issue was the uphill road walk on the new bypass.
      its all good

    • I'm one of the hikers that doesn't do any planning. Maybe because I hike the souther half of the AT and water is more abundant. Unless it is over 90* I only carry 16-20oz of water. When I hit a source I drink a bunch and fill my one bottle. This year all I did was dip my 16oz bag for my sawyer mini with the filter attached and put in a side pocket to drink out of. It doesn't bother me if I run out while Im still hiking because Im sure I will run across a source within 10 miles. The longest I went without water was 5-6 miles. So that's only 2-3 hours to hike dry. No big deal to me. In other parts of the country I'm sure more planning is necessary. Especially out west. .. When we did our Havasu hike we didn't know if there was any water sources. So we carried 2L each. My wife was worried we would run out. I told her we probably would, but that's ok if we did. I figured if we ran out we would only be a couple of miles from a fill up, or an hour or so of hiking. No big deal. If I had been hiking the trail on my own I would have only taken a liter. I carried more for her to be more mentally comfortable. .. Now if I was doing a cross country hike out there I'd probably carry 4 gallons.....

    • Weather conditions before and during a hike can radically affect the availability of water. Sometimes you know this in advance, sometimes it can catch you by surprise. Worse yet, the effect of weather is a double-whammy: when it's hot, streams and springs are running dry at the same time you're needing extra water due to perspiration.

      In '07, setting out on a very long section hike from Lehigh Gap in PA, I soon realized I was hiking in drought conditions. Those first few days in PA were touch-and-go for water, and I was constantly scrambling. We got some rain south of Duncannon, and that made life easier for a few days. But most of the hike was in drought. I adopted by "cameling up" where I could, and keeping my Platy bag relatively full, almost always.

      Earlier this summer on the LT I had the opposite situation. Prior to my starting out, it had rained hard for several days in the Green Mountains, and the trail was very wet. Heck, it was a flowing stream when I started uphill the first day. Even so, I had a bit of a "water situation" on the third day. I ran out of steam, couldn't make it to Spruce Ledge shelter as I'd hoped, and ended up camping on reserve water, being unable to find water in those last couple of miles. It was not an emergency, I still had water for my Liptons noodles and a cup of tea. I set out the next morning with the shelter 2 or 3 miles downhill, and a pint of water to get me there. A bit too close for comfort, in my opinion.

      Many water-related errors begin when I'm too lazy, or just in too much of a hurry to stock up on water when I should. Like Hikerboy did in the last post, at Liberty Springs. It seems I never learn...

    • this thread is starting to remind me of someplace else. some rambling thoughts.

      backpacking is fun. the amount of planning should be whatever level is necessary for someone to be able to go out and have fun. this is different for everyone. some people even find planning to be fun. i'm thinking of those potential thrus who prepare a prehike spreadsheet which shows where they will sleep every night for the next 6 months. i will admit those people make me laugh.

      i obviously don't plan enough: i quit my job to do my thru. i did all my gear upgrading and "planning" at night and on the weekend as i worked out my 2 week notice. this was before AlGore invented the internet. which was probably a good thing because i could not parse every decision to death.

      i obviously plan too much: i own every atc state guidebook. before i hike a section of the a.t. (except ga) i read what the guidebook has to say. (it stays at home). i'm looking for water sources and potential great camping sports. i hate it when i stop a mile before a great spot because i didn't know about it until the next morning. i carry the companion. between the guidebook and companion if water is going to be an issue i know before i leave.

      so i plan a heckuva lot more for a week or weekend trip than for a thru. i think that is a good example of parkinson's law in action. those of you who live in rio linda, ca. can use google to look that up.

      a word about weight. wingfoot used to say that the same people who obsess about a couple of ounces in march are the same people who throw a 5 pound rotisserie chicken and a beer in their pack when they leave town in pennsylvania. there is a lot of truth in that statement.

      and geez, rafe, when you write a 13 page, single spaced, typed treatise on how to hike i think you lose to right to say that someone else plans too much.
      2,000 miler

    • I'm with DMAX. I only carry 20 oz also...one water bottle. If I'm hiking in unfamiliar territory or it's hot, I carry two. I'm fortunate and spoiled by the abundent water available where I normally hike.

      I like to have a basic plan when I hike because I worry about my family. I'm afraid something bad will happen at home and no one will be able to find me. When I hiked to Erwin, my longest distance so far, I hiked until I was tired then found a place to camp. It was the first time I didn't have to deal with reservations and an itinarary. It was liberating and empowering. I figured it out on my own. It wasn't without mistakes but the mistakes were minor and easily fixed.

      BB, I don't go into the same detail that you do when planning, but I enjoy reading about yours. It makes me think about what I can/want to change about my own hiking style.
      Lost in the right direction.

    • Rasty wrote:

      From personal experience I would guess for every reliable water source there has been two to three trickles that have fulfilled my water needs.


      I'd be in real trouble if that were not true, I left the NOC about 2:00, not a breeze blowing, high 80s, not a cloud in the sky, had 24 oz of water which had worked great to that point, and after, the water was gone shortly after crossing the railraod tracks and that 8 mile climb was dehydrating me quickly, came to a great little waterfall coming out of a rock, watered up, took a quick shower under the fall and I was good to go.
      I may grow old but I'll never grow up.

    • max.patch wrote:


      and geez, rafe, when you write a 13 page, single spaced, typed treatise on how to hike i think you lose to right to say that someone else plans too much.


      It was 24 years ago, written in jest, with nothing better to do. It was "before AlGore invented the internet" as you say, so that's just an inkling of how different a time and space it was. All my planning didn't get me to Katahdin. My finishing the trail took lots more learning and growing up. (But even then I never once considered writing a daily itinerary, or carving a balsa spoon.)

      My quarrel with BirdBrain is centered on the issue of water "planning." I'm aware of a death due to dehydration (a state trooper cadet here in MA, many years ago) and have suffered a bout of kidney stones, quite possibly poor hydration at some point. I'd rather carry too much water than not enough. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong.

    • Who me? A troublemaker? Ball that newspaper up and shove it in as far as it will go. The toe area is probably the most important part to dry out to avoid blisters, at least for my feet. I have had many blisters on or near the toes, but only one blister near the heel (where the no-show sock did not go up far enough).

      Balled up newspaper also makes good insulation. Balled up newspaper stuffed in my jacket kept me warm one winter night when my car broke down.
      I am human and I need to be loved - just like everybody else does

    • WanderingStovie wrote:

      Who me? A troublemaker? Ball that newspaper up and shove it in as far as it will go. The toe area is probably the most important part to dry out to avoid blisters, at least for my feet. I have had many blisters on or near the toes, but only one blister near the heel (where the no-show sock did not go up far enough).

      Balled up newspaper also makes good insulation. Balled up newspaper stuffed in my jacket kept me warm one winter night when my car broke down.


      I've used the newspaper trick many times when drying out wet running shoes but have yet to carry newspaper on the trail. I once found a compete newspaper from Indiana dated a month earlier lying on the trail in Big South Fork.
      Lost in the right direction.

    • i carry 2 quarts of water on the a.t. most of the time. even in georgia where it is not necessary. (except on some sections during dry periods).

      on my thru i carried 1 quart until damascus. i bought a second water bottle there. not because i was finding myself running low. because it meant i did not have to stop as often to refill. its become a habit that i don't even think about.

      a quick story about georgia. those who read whiteblaze are aware every year of the WARNINGS about NO WATER from hawk mountain shelter to justus creek. you MUST STOP and REFILL your water bottles. people comment how they became DEHYDRATED during this stretch. survivor dave and ron brown, 2 well known georgia shuttlers, have left water jugs at cooper gap in this stretch for hikers. its the desert in georgia!!!

      2 thoughts:

      a) its 6.2 miles. a 10k. is it really that big a deal?

      b) all kidding about BB "overplanning" aside, i bet he's not going to run out of water on this stretch.
      2,000 miler

    • I don't run out of water anywhere because I plan around reliable water sources. If Rainbow Lake or the Kennebec River run dry I guess I might get kidney stones. If you are looking for the next puddle, you deserve to be thirsty. The way my plan is being portrayed is breathtaking.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • I am one of those people who find excessive planning annoying. There are a few things I would like to know before setting out on a long hike, such as expected high and low temperatures, precipitation, resupply points, long stretches without shelters or water, big climbs, how rocky the trail is, and when I need a water filter to remove sand and floating organic matter. I treat my water with Aquamira, but if I think it may contain multi-celled organisms, I want to filter or boil it.

      During my recent Pennsylvania hike, I improvised more than I planned. I was hoping for a day to myself in town to resupply and do laundry, but my trail angel drove me to Kirkridge earlier than expected. Therefore, I packed in a rush. I carried very little extra clothing, filled my food bag to the top with whatever was on hand, and stuffed tortillas in the hydration pouch. I was prepared to hike into town if I ran out. I ran out of hot chocolate, but I wanted a hot beverage, so I boiled water and threw in raspberry lemonade drink mix. I thought it was good, but I mixed it much stronger than I do when drinking it cold. I got low on stove fuel, so I was prepared to cook over wood fires, but never did. My trail angel showed up and gave me some fuel for the last night.
      I am human and I need to be loved - just like everybody else does

    • max.patch wrote:

      i carry 2 quarts of water on the a.t. most of the time. even in georgia where it is not necessary. (except on some sections during dry periods).

      on my thru i carried 1 quart until damascus. i bought a second water bottle there. not because i was finding myself running low. because it meant i did not have to stop as often to refill. its become a habit that i don't even think about.

      a quick story about georgia. those who read whiteblaze are aware every year of the WARNINGS about NO WATER from hawk mountain shelter to justus creek. you MUST STOP and REFILL your water bottles. people comment how they became DEHYDRATED during this stretch. survivor dave and ron brown, 2 well known georgia shuttlers, have left water jugs at cooper gap in this stretch for hikers. its the desert in georgia!!!

      2 thoughts:

      a) its 6.2 miles. a 10k. is it really that big a deal?

      b) all kidding about BB "overplanning" aside, i bet he's not going to run out of water on this stretch.


      Cooper Gap??? That is "FatMan" territory... We would walk from his house to the AT and do a big loop, including Gooch and Woody, checking water supplies and such, with our hounds, SideKick, Toby and, wait for it... Cooper... He has helped many a Thru, Even has a Weather Station so you can get info for that area if ur planning to hike around there...
      1 Fish, 2 Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish...

    • BirdBrain wrote:

      I don't run out of water anywhere because I plan around reliable water sources. If Rainbow Lake or the Kennebec River run dry I guess I might get kidney stones. If you are looking for the next puddle, you deserve to be thirsty. The way my plan is being portrayed is breathtaking.


      In what way have you been misunderstood, Birdbrain? And what's with these "reliable water sources?" On the one hand you suggest that we might save precious ounces by carrying less water, but here you suggest we should only rely on utterly reliable sources (rivers, lakes) that could never vanish. Which is it?

      We hike over mountain ridges. Water is usually found in the valleys, sometimes on lower slopes. Sometimes on the ridge, but usually not. Sometimes it's a dozen miles between water sources. How much water is enough for a dozen miles? What risks are you willing to take, in order save on the weight of carried water, or the time spent refilling? That's for every hiker to decide for themselves.

    • Carrying 2 liters worked for me in Pennsylvania. I went 17 miles between water sources, past the "Superfun" site (someone scratched off the final letter on the sign). My longest day of hiking was only 13 miles. There were times when I wished I had more water. My lips were noticeably dry, and I wished I had not eaten so much sodium in the morning (Ramen for breakfast), but I would not say that I suffered.
      I am human and I need to be loved - just like everybody else does

    • Toli wrote:


      Cooper Gap??? That is "FatMan" territory... We would walk from his house to the AT and do a big loop, including Gooch and Woody, checking water supplies and such, with our hounds, SideKick, Toby and, wait for it... Cooper... He has helped many a Thru, Even has a Weather Station so you can get info for that area if ur planning to hike around there...


      fatman is a good guy. haven't met him irl but hope that changes at some point.
      2,000 miler

    • rafe wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      I don't run out of water anywhere because I plan around reliable water sources. If Rainbow Lake or the Kennebec River run dry I guess I might get kidney stones. If you are looking for the next puddle, you deserve to be thirsty. The way my plan is being portrayed is breathtaking.


      In what way have you been misunderstood, Birdbrain? And what's with these "reliable water sources?" On the one hand you suggest that we might save precious ounces by carrying less water, but here you suggest we should only rely on utterly reliable sources (rivers, lakes) that could never vanish. Which is it?

      We hike over mountain ridges. Water is usually found in the valleys, sometimes on lower slopes. Sometimes on the ridge, but usually not. Sometimes it's a dozen miles between water sources. How much water is enough for a dozen miles? What risks are you willing to take, in order save on the weight of carried water, or the time spent refilling? That's for every hiker to decide for themselves.


      Go back and read my statements. Nowhere did I say that I plan for unreliable water sources. I walk over many unreliable water sources with water in my containers. I am not moving my statements around. There is no contradiction in my statements. I plan for known water sources. I do not plan on water being available where it might dry up. In my frustration to get you to see that, I am making bold statements. I am a little familiar with walking over ridges where water is scarce. I carry enough water over those ridges. I try to plan my water so I am not carrying extra water when I get to the next reliable water source. I am saying the same thing over and over and it is not being heard. I am not telling anyone to do it my way. I am just trying to grasp the other side.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • BB: I, too, plan on reliable water sources. You never heard me say anything about "what if the next source is dry?" But I do a fair amount of hiking on bone-dry ridges. Sometimes I carry extra water to avoid a descent. Sometimes I carry a lot of extra water so that I can decide during the hike when I want to descend, rather than being forced into it by low water supply. Sometimes I'll come upon one of the less-reliable water sources and top off, to keep the flexibility of being able to head to a reliable source when I choose. There are lots of reliable water sources, but where I hike it's work getting to them.

      I also generally plan on a reserve in case (God forbid!) I get hurt and can't travel. With any luck, I'll be found before that runs out. That's probably the heaviest single thing among my "emergency supplies."

      On my last hike, the water plan was mostly "try not to fall into any." I wasn't entirely successful. Incredibly wet terrain.
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.

    • AnotherKevin wrote:

      BB: I, too, plan on reliable water sources. You never heard me say anything about "what if the next source is dry?" But I do a fair amount of hiking on bone-dry ridges. Sometimes I carry extra water to avoid a descent. Sometimes I carry a lot of extra water so that I can decide during the hike when I want to descend, rather than being forced into it by low water supply. Sometimes I'll come upon one of the less-reliable water sources and top off, to keep the flexibility of being able to head to a reliable source when I choose. There are lots of reliable water sources, but where I hike it's work getting to them.

      I also generally plan on a reserve in case (God forbid!) I get hurt and can't travel. With any luck, I'll be found before that runs out. That's probably the heaviest single thing among my "emergency supplies."

      On my last hike, the water plan was mostly "try not to fall into any." I wasn't entirely successful. Incredibly wet terrain.


      Sounds like prudent reasoning. Thank you. I see your logic.

      Buried in your reply is the key to my disconnect. You place value in the ability to choose a camp site on the fly. I place no value in that. I know where I am going to camp. There is zero need for contingency water given my preference. My camp site choices are made via the weighing of many factors. Water is just one of them. Once in a while I have to plan for a night with no water source because of distance or beauty. Mt Hight was an example of that.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by BirdBrain ().

    • BirdBrain wrote:



      Buried in your reply is the key to my disconnect. You place value in the ability to choose a camp site on the fly. I place no value in that. I know where I am going to camp. There is zero need for contingency water given my preference. My camp site choices are made via the weighing of many factors. Water is just one of them. Once in a while I have to plan for a night with no water source because of distance or beauty. Mt Hight was an example of that.



      Many's the time I camped or sheltered some place other than what I'd expected or intended. Happens quite often, actually. It's part of my plan to allow for such possibilities. Maybe I'll meet a friend on the trail, or an unexpected camp-able beauty spot. Water might or might not figure in my choice (either its presence or its absence,) as might fatigue, onset of darkness, unexpectedly beautiful terrain, or unexpectedly difficult terrain. Maybe I'll arrive at my intended destination and decide I don't want to stay there for one reason or another -- that happens, too. Maybe the scenery along the trail is just so breathtaking that I want to linger.

      I've had some amazing views from some of these unplanned campsites -- right on the trail on the way up Roan Mountain, at a place called Cedar Cliffs in Virginia, at Mary's Rock in SNP, on the way up Greylock in MA (pictured.) Those are just a few that come to mind off the top of my head.

      Though I'd be lying if I said that all of them are beautiful and scenic. ;)
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    • That is logical too. I can see that reasoning. Really don't understand the reaction to my preference though. There is a term in economics called an opportunity cost. The opportunity cost of my unwillingness to carry contingency water is that I don't get to be flexible. The opportunity cost of your desire to have options is the added weight of water. I really don't understand how that is a concept that should draw such ire. It is a choice, not an evil or irresponsible act. I am grasping why the other side does what they do now. It isn't for me, but it does not have to be.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by BirdBrain ().

    • BirdBrain wrote:

      That is logical too. I can see that reasoning. Really don't understand the reaction to my preference though.


      Which preference? Regarding itineraries, you've stated yours, now I've stated mine. It's all good. ;)

      I never thought of my strategy as adventurous but rather, pragmatic. Most of the time I have a fairly good idea of where I want to end up at the end of the day, but I'm usually open to other possibilities. Here's one where I unexpectedly found LoboSolo near Laurel Falls. That day I had only a very vague idea where I'd end up... but we had a smashing good time of it nonetheless.
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    • My preference to research known water supplies and to carry just enough between each known water supply and to plan my days accordingly. I guess this reveals another preference of mine.I plan for the trail. I like seeing people but my plan is not effected by people. It is all about the trail for me. If there is a party short of my plan, I am not stopping. I understand those that do. I wonder if anyone understands why I don't.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • ^^In the afternoon, no extra water means you kinda have to get to that shelter or campsite where the water is. Having extra water means you can camp where you please. Everything's a tradeoff. Here's the view from one of those waterless impromptu campsites, in SNP.
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