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Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

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    • Re:Re: Re:Re: Re:Re: Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      I carry 1.4 lbs of very calorie dense foods per day and consider that about as good as I will get. I typically carry 6 days or more of food at the start of each leg. I have carried as much as 10. I do not find it convenient to visit every town for resupplies. 6 days of food is 8.4 lbs. I often carry 4 pounds of water. Now I am up to 12.4 lbs before I even think of gear. Hmmmm.....
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.
    • Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      Also, I suspect it's no longer 22# with BB's stove (sorry but I'm pretty sure it's heavier than my other stuff), and some other things I've acquired.

      22# isn't heavy for some but I'm not very strong and it's all I can comfortably manage. Throw in some mountains and I definitely live up to my name. Really, I hope I don't sound whiney and petty.
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Also, I suspect it's no longer 22# with BB's stove (sorry but I'm pretty sure it's heavier than my other stuff), and some other things I've acquired.

      22# isn't heavy for some but I'm not very strong and it's all I can comfortably manage. Throw in some mountains and I definitely live up to my name. Really, I hope I don't sound whiney and petty.


      Were you not cooking before?
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.
    • Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Also, I suspect it's no longer 22# with BB's stove (sorry but I'm pretty sure it's heavier than my other stuff), and some other things I've acquired.

      22# isn't heavy for some but I'm not very strong and it's all I can comfortably manage. Throw in some mountains and I definitely live up to my name. Really, I hope I don't sound whiney and petty.


      Were you not cooking before?


      Pocket rocket, canister, gsi pot.

      I'm going to start on a list tonight and do some weighing. I'm out for a while. See ya.
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Re:Re: Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Also, I suspect it's no longer 22# with BB's stove (sorry but I'm pretty sure it's heavier than my other stuff), and some other things I've acquired.

      22# isn't heavy for some but I'm not very strong and it's all I can comfortably manage. Throw in some mountains and I definitely live up to my name. Really, I hope I don't sound whiney and petty.


      Were you not cooking before?


      Pocket rocket, canister, gsi pot.

      I'm going to start on a list tonight and do some weighing. I'm out for a while. See ya.


      Use geargrams.com it does the math for you.
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference
    • Re:Re: Re:Re: Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      jimmyjam wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Also, I suspect it's no longer 22# with BB's stove (sorry but I'm pretty sure it's heavier than my other stuff), and some other things I've acquired.

      22# isn't heavy for some but I'm not very strong and it's all I can comfortably manage. Throw in some mountains and I definitely live up to my name. Really, I hope I don't sound whiney and petty.


      Were you not cooking before?


      Pocket rocket, canister, gsi pot.

      I'm going to start on a list tonight and do some weighing. I'm out for a while. See ya.


      Use geargrams.com it does the math for you.


      You can add a link to the gear grams report for your gear to your profile information.
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123
    • Re:Re: Re:Re: Re:Re: Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      BirdBrain wrote:

      I carry 1.4 lbs of very calorie dense foods per day and consider that about as good as I will get. I typically carry 6 days or more of food at the start of each leg. I have carried as much as 10. I do not find it convenient to visit every town for resupplies. 6 days of food is 8.4 lbs. I often carry 4 pounds of water. Now I am up to 12.4 lbs before I even think of gear. Hmmmm.....
      there's no need to carry that much water on the AT
    • Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      i weigh my loaded pack one time using the bathroom scale.

      for those that fuss more than that, this appears to be an excellent resource (it has the weight of a gazillion items that you can select and create a list of the contents of your pack):

      http://www.weighmygear.com/
      2,000 miler
    • Re:Re: Re:Re: Re:Re: Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      LoboSolo wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      I carry 1.4 lbs of very calorie dense foods per day and consider that about as good as I will get. I typically carry 6 days or more of food at the start of each leg. I have carried as much as 10. I do not find it convenient to visit every town for resupplies. 6 days of food is 8.4 lbs. I often carry 4 pounds of water. Now I am up to 12.4 lbs before I even think of gear. Hmmmm.....
      there's no need to carry that much water on the AT


      I agree ... And this is usually the easiest place to save some weight. Most of the time hikers carry too much water because they carry it in a camelbak and it is too difficult to fill it up often, and too hard to tell how much water they still have available, and/or their water treatment is too difficult to use often for smaller quantities of water. Solve those problems and it becomes attractive to carry more like a pound and a half max of water.
      kick out the jams, bunny rabbit!
    • Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      max.patch wrote:

      depends on where you are walking and the time of the season.

      sometimes 2 quarts is overkill, sometimes its not nearly enough.

      also depends if you want to camp away from a water site.


      Yours is the voice of reason on this one. I don't always carry 4 lbs, but when I do there is a reason for it.

      I am editing this post so there is not a misunderstanding. I fully agree that people often carry too much water. I just listed my 6 days of food and 4 pounds of water as an upper extreme. There are times when I am almost out if both. That weight is not a useful benchmark.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.
    • Re:Re: Re:Re: Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      Rasty wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Also, I suspect it's no longer 22# with BB's stove (sorry but I'm pretty sure it's heavier than my other stuff), and some other things I've acquired.

      22# isn't heavy for some but I'm not very strong and it's all I can comfortably manage. Throw in some mountains and I definitely live up to my name. Really, I hope I don't sound whiney and petty.


      Were you not cooking before?


      Pocket rocket, canister, gsi pot.

      I'm going to start on a list tonight and do some weighing. I'm out for a while. See ya.


      Use geargrams.com it does the math for you.


      You can add a link to the gear grams report for your gear to your profile information.


      How do I do that?
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Also, I suspect it's no longer 22# with BB's stove (sorry but I'm pretty sure it's heavier than my other stuff), and some other things I've acquired.

      22# isn't heavy for some but I'm not very strong and it's all I can comfortably manage. Throw in some mountains and I definitely live up to my name. Really, I hope I don't sound whiney and petty.


      Were you not cooking before?


      Pocket rocket, canister, gsi pot.

      I'm going to start on a list tonight and do some weighing. I'm out for a while. See ya.


      BB, I was wrong. there's not much difference between my previous cooking set and the one using your stove.
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      TrafficJam wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Also, I suspect it's no longer 22# with BB's stove (sorry but I'm pretty sure it's heavier than my other stuff), and some other things I've acquired.

      22# isn't heavy for some but I'm not very strong and it's all I can comfortably manage. Throw in some mountains and I definitely live up to my name. Really, I hope I don't sound whiney and petty.


      Were you not cooking before?


      Pocket rocket, canister, gsi pot.

      I'm going to start on a list tonight and do some weighing. I'm out for a while. See ya.


      BB, I was wrong. there's not much difference between my previous cooking set and the one using your stove.


      I had no idea you had this other setup. Many would say it Is superior. Isobutane vs alcohol is a coke pepsi debate with little wiggle room. I love the dyi aspect of it. It is not for everyone.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.
    • Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Also, I suspect it's no longer 22# with BB's stove (sorry but I'm pretty sure it's heavier than my other stuff), and some other things I've acquired.

      22# isn't heavy for some but I'm not very strong and it's all I can comfortably manage. Throw in some mountains and I definitely live up to my name. Really, I hope I don't sound whiney and petty.


      Were you not cooking before?


      Pocket rocket, canister, gsi pot.

      I'm going to start on a list tonight and do some weighing. I'm out for a while. See ya.


      BB, I was wrong. there's not much difference between my previous cooking set and the one using your stove.


      I had no idea you had this other setup. Many would say it Is superior. Isobutane vs alcohol is a coke pepsi debate with little wiggle room. I love the dyi aspect of it. It is not for everyone.


      I think your stove is cool! I also have 2 Jetboils but I gave one to my daughter to use during hurricane season.
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Re:Re: Re:Re: Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Rasty wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Also, I suspect it's no longer 22# with BB's stove (sorry but I'm pretty sure it's heavier than my other stuff), and some other things I've acquired.

      22# isn't heavy for some but I'm not very strong and it's all I can comfortably manage. Throw in some mountains and I definitely live up to my name. Really, I hope I don't sound whiney and petty.


      Were you not cooking before?


      Pocket rocket, canister, gsi pot.

      I'm going to start on a list tonight and do some weighing. I'm out for a while. See ya.


      Use geargrams.com it does the math for you.


      You can add a link to the gear grams report for your gear to your profile information.


      How do I do that?


      On your profile page, click edit profile on the drop down list and there is a place to insert the link. I did it on my profile page, but I don't know where the link shows up for people to see.
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference
    • Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Also, I suspect it's no longer 22# with BB's stove (sorry but I'm pretty sure it's heavier than my other stuff), and some other things I've acquired.

      22# isn't heavy for some but I'm not very strong and it's all I can comfortably manage. Throw in some mountains and I definitely live up to my name. Really, I hope I don't sound whiney and petty.


      Were you not cooking before?


      Pocket rocket, canister, gsi pot.

      I'm going to start on a list tonight and do some weighing. I'm out for a while. See ya.


      BB, I was wrong. there's not much difference between my previous cooking set and the one using your stove.


      I had no idea you had this other setup. Many would say it Is superior. Isobutane vs alcohol is a coke pepsi debate with little wiggle room. I love the dyi aspect of it. It is not for everyone.


      I think your stove is cool! I also have 2 Jetboils but I gave one to my daughter to use during hurricane season.


      I bought a Jetboil in 2011. I have heated it with alcohol, and only recently bought my first canister. I still have not used the canister. I found some Fire Ribbon at the Priest shelter in 2011. I tried heating water with it. It left a lot of soot on the bottom.
      I am human and I need to be loved - just like everybody else does
    • Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      jimmyjam wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Rasty wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Also, I suspect it's no longer 22# with BB's stove (sorry but I'm pretty sure it's heavier than my other stuff), and some other things I've acquired.

      22# isn't heavy for some but I'm not very strong and it's all I can comfortably manage. Throw in some mountains and I definitely live up to my name. Really, I hope I don't sound whiney and petty.


      Were you not cooking before?


      Pocket rocket, canister, gsi pot.

      I'm going to start on a list tonight and do some weighing. I'm out for a while. See ya.


      Use geargrams.com it does the math for you.


      You can add a link to the gear grams report for your gear to your profile information.


      How do I do that?


      On your profile page, click edit profile on the drop down list and there is a place to insert the link. I did it on my profile page, but I don't know where the link shows up for people to see.


      The link to the geargrams page is what's confusing me. The URL takes you to the home page, not to my page.

      JJ, you're page has an id#, mine doesn't. (?)
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Re:Re: Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      TrafficJam wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Rasty wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Also, I suspect it's no longer 22# with BB's stove (sorry but I'm pretty sure it's heavier than my other stuff), and some other things I've acquired.

      22# isn't heavy for some but I'm not very strong and it's all I can comfortably manage. Throw in some mountains and I definitely live up to my name. Really, I hope I don't sound whiney and petty.


      Were you not cooking before?


      Pocket rocket, canister, gsi pot.

      I'm going to start on a list tonight and do some weighing. I'm out for a while. See ya.


      Use geargrams.com it does the math for you.


      You can add a link to the gear grams report for your gear to your profile information.


      How do I do that?


      On your profile page, click edit profile on the drop down list and there is a place to insert the link. I did it on my profile page, but I don't know where the link shows up for people to see.


      The link to the geargrams page is what's confusing me. The URL takes you to the home page, not to my page.

      JJ, you're page has an id#, mine doesn't. (?)


      Your report will produce its own URL with a report number. Copy and paste that into your profile
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123
    • Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      This is my warm weather list. It's not half as nice and organized as JJ's.: www.geargrams.com/list?id=18428

      It doesn't include food, hiking poles, or what I wear. This would be for a 4 night/5 day trip.
      I'd like to add a hair brush, chamois, and compass.
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      hikerboy wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      I have started my geargrams list. Not much in it so far. Next step is to get a link in my profile.

      how much does this geargram list weigh?


      I am finding it too heavy so far. Will likely drill a bunch of holes in it soon. I think it is up. I loaded it into my profile in the spot for geargrams. Not sure how visible that will make it. Next step is to see if how people find it. It is here too.

      http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=18449

      All that is in it so far is what I carry in my grease pot. Just testing this program out.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.
    • Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      BirdBrain wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      I have started my geargrams list. Not much in it so far. Next step is to get a link in my profile.

      how much does this geargram list weigh?


      I am finding it too heavy so far. Will likely drill a bunch of holes in it soon. I think it is up. I loaded it into my profile in the spot for geargrams. Not sure how visible that will make it. Next step is to see if how people find it. It is here too.

      http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=18449

      All that is in it so far is what I carry in my grease pot. Just testing this program out.


      I can't wait to see it BB. I'm sure it'll be as thorough and organized as JJ's.
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      I have started my geargrams list. Not much in it so far. Next step is to get a link in my profile.

      how much does this geargram list weigh?


      I am finding it too heavy so far. Will likely drill a bunch of holes in it soon. I think it is up. I loaded it into my profile in the spot for geargrams. Not sure how visible that will make it. Next step is to see if how people find it. It is here too.

      http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=18449

      All that is in it so far is what I carry in my grease pot. Just testing this program out.


      I can't wait to see it BB. I'm sure it'll be as thorough and organized as JJ's.


      Holy Moly, I got a look at your list so far, I really am doing it wrong.
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      TrafficJam wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      I have started my geargrams list. Not much in it so far. Next step is to get a link in my profile.

      how much does this geargram list weigh?


      I am finding it too heavy so far. Will likely drill a bunch of holes in it soon. I think it is up. I loaded it into my profile in the spot for geargrams. Not sure how visible that will make it. Next step is to see if how people find it. It is here too.

      http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=18449

      All that is in it so far is what I carry in my grease pot. Just testing this program out.


      I can't wait to see it BB. I'm sure it'll be as thorough and organized as JJ's.


      Holy Moly, I got a look at your list so far, I really am doing it wrong.


      If you are doing it wrong, you are doing it. A lot of people never do it wrong, because they never do it.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.
    • Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      I have started my geargrams list. Not much in it so far. Next step is to get a link in my profile.

      how much does this geargram list weigh?


      I am finding it too heavy so far. Will likely drill a bunch of holes in it soon. I think it is up. I loaded it into my profile in the spot for geargrams. Not sure how visible that will make it. Next step is to see if how people find it. It is here too.

      http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=18449

      All that is in it so far is what I carry in my grease pot. Just testing this program out.


      I can't wait to see it BB. I'm sure it'll be as thorough and organized as JJ's.


      Holy Moly, I got a look at your list so far, I really am doing it wrong.


      If you are doing it wrong, you are doing it. A lot of people never do it wrong, because they never do it.


      Thanks BB!
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I cleaned up my list, it looks much better. What's the significance of the pie chart on the report page?


      I cannot access geargrams at work. Therefore I do not know what you are seeing. The fact that you are asking the question suggests you are not putting items into separate categories. Look at mine. I have added more to it. The pie chart shows you at a glance the percentages of total weight each category is consuming. It helps you assess your weights. You can add categories too. I have added a few and will add a few more.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.
    • Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I cleaned up my list, it looks much better. What's the significance of the pie chart on the report page?


      I cannot access geargrams at work. Therefore I do not know what you are seeing. The fact that you are asking the question suggests you are not putting items into separate categories. Look at mine. I have added more to it. The pie chart shows you at a glance the percentages of total weight each category is consuming. It helps you assess your weights. You can add categories too. I have added a few and will add a few more.


      I guess I didn't ask my question right. Is there a recommendation for how much each category should take up in my pack? I have the percentages, now what? How does knowing that help me?
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I cleaned up my list, it looks much better. What's the significance of the pie chart on the report page?


      I cannot access geargrams at work. Therefore I do not know what you are seeing. The fact that you are asking the question suggests you are not putting items into separate categories. Look at mine. I have added more to it. The pie chart shows you at a glance the percentages of total weight each category is consuming. It helps you assess your weights. You can add categories too. I have added a few and will add a few more.


      I guess I didn't ask my question right. Is there a recommendation for how much each category should take up in my pack? I have the percentages, now what? How does knowing that help me?


      I suppose someone has a formula for that. I don't. I seek to find the lightest weights I can get for each needed item and still have it functional. Whatever that makes the percentage is not as important as my own goals.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.
    • Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I cleaned up my list, it looks much better. What's the significance of the pie chart on the report page?


      I cannot access geargrams at work. Therefore I do not know what you are seeing. The fact that you are asking the question suggests you are not putting items into separate categories. Look at mine. I have added more to it. The pie chart shows you at a glance the percentages of total weight each category is consuming. It helps you assess your weights. You can add categories too. I have added a few and will add a few more.


      I guess I didn't ask my question right. Is there a recommendation for how much each category should take up in my pack? I have the percentages, now what? How does knowing that help me?


      I suppose someone has a formula for that. I don't. I seek to find the lightest weights I can get for each needed item and still have it functional. Whatever that makes the percentage is not as important as my own goals.


      That's what I think too. Who cares if my highest percentage is food, or booze, or knitting? I guess the pie chart is just there to look nice.
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I cleaned up my list, it looks much better. What's the significance of the pie chart on the report page?


      I cannot access geargrams at work. Therefore I do not know what you are seeing. The fact that you are asking the question suggests you are not putting items into separate categories. Look at mine. I have added more to it. The pie chart shows you at a glance the percentages of total weight each category is consuming. It helps you assess your weights. You can add categories too. I have added a few and will add a few more.


      I guess I didn't ask my question right. Is there a recommendation for how much each category should take up in my pack? I have the percentages, now what? How does knowing that help me?


      I suppose someone has a formula for that. I don't. I seek to find the lightest weights I can get for each needed item and still have it functional. Whatever that makes the percentage is not as important as my own goals.


      That's what I think too. Who cares if my highest percentage is food, or booze, or knitting? I guess the pie chart is just there to look nice.


      The chart also shows weights. That is more useful than a percentage. I can look at weights and see what needs work. For example if your cook set weighed 5 lbs before fuel, then it would reveal a problem to work on.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.
    • Re:Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I cleaned up my list, it looks much better. What's the significance of the pie chart on the report page?


      I cannot access geargrams at work. Therefore I do not know what you are seeing. The fact that you are asking the question suggests you are not putting items into separate categories. Look at mine. I have added more to it. The pie chart shows you at a glance the percentages of total weight each category is consuming. It helps you assess your weights. You can add categories too. I have added a few and will add a few more.


      I guess I didn't ask my question right. Is there a recommendation for how much each category should take up in my pack? I have the percentages, now what? How does knowing that help me?


      Here's my 2 cents: I just set a goal to lighten my load because I was experiencing knee problems. The weight goal I set was for my total pack weight to be 25 lbs or less with 3 days of food and 2 liters of water and 30 lbs or less with 5 days of food and 2 liters of water. I really don't care how much each category weighs, just the total. I have slowly whittled away the ozs. When I first got back into hiking 10 years ago my pack weighed 4.5 lbs and I thought my tent was light at 4 lbs and my sleeping bag at 2 lbs. And I was mainly hiking out west- Grand Canyon, Bryce, Cedar Mesa. I don't know how I climbed out of those canyons with all that weight. lol.
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference