Alcohol Stoves

jimmyjam · Apr 28th 2014, 6:50pm

You guys continue to amaze me with your stoves.

stoviewander · Apr 28th 2014, 7:16pm

odd man out wrote:

stoviewander wrote:

Here is the link to the steel can I used http://www.sciplus.com/p/ROUND-TINS-WITH-LIDS_54351

I went through the cupboards and found a can of La Preferida Green Chilies that might work for the steel can. The bottom is different from yours. but the rim on the bottom is flush with the sides and will fit inside the pop can. It's a snug, but not tight fit. It slides in easily but there is no gap. I measure it to be 21/2 inches, but it's hard to be sure without calipers. I also have a Little Friskies cat food can. It seems to be identical to the Vienna Sausages can, but it doesn't have the horizontal ridges. Not sure if those are critical.

I like the idea of a smooth walled innermost can. There are various candidates. I saw two brands of potted meat, small cat food cans (Friskies, Fancy Feast, store brand), and California Scents all in what appear to be identical cans. I may build another burner with the potted meat can to see how well it works, for both construction and boiling water.

I looked at a can of La Preferida Green Chilies. It appears to be the same shape and size as other brands of Green Chilies. I expect the diameter to be close to 2 19/32" across the side walls, and 2 17/32" at one rim, and 2 21/32" at the other rim. To avoid tabs, you would have to keep the larger of the two rims, but the 2 21/32" rim is too big to force into the 2 5/8" soda can. I recommend a can with a 62 mm (2 7/16") diameter across the side walls. I would use one made from aluminum if I could find the right size and shape.

odd man out · Apr 28th 2014, 7:24pm

I have to teach some sections of lower level chemistry labs every year and it's like pulling teeth to get the student to read a DIGITAL scale correctly. If I had to teach them how to read a vernier scale, such as we had on our old optical polarimeter, it might kill them. Our modern electronic polarimeter gives hundredths of a degree. I think our manual instrument with the vernier scale gave two additional decimal places. I love it when old-tech trump "high tech". Maybe that's why I build stoves out of V8 cans.

TETKoba · Apr 28th 2014, 8:37pm

BirdBrain wrote:

A triune quorum being reached, I am committing mutiny and giving my friends in Japan permission to post the video.

Again, TETKoba, you are very kind and generous. I hope JBS loads a video to show how to build a real FREVO so I can learn his secrets too. All that come here will know that you 2 are the developers of this technology.

Thank you. Feel free to load the video on YouTube.

AppalachianTrailCafe.net, get ready for the influx of TETKoba fans.

I have one question for you TETKoba. What did you do to your foot? :lol:

Thank you for the correction. I just done modification and re-uploading now.
Sorry, I can't understand your first sentence. If the relations of you and administrator turn worse, I don't open the video to public.

Did you see my instagram? Yes I ruptured an Achilles' tendon in January. I undergo rehabilitation now. Take care your foot too. It seems Achilles' tendon will rupture easily by body ageing(hahaha).

BirdBrain · Apr 28th 2014, 8:46pm

TETKoba wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

A triune quorum being reached, I am committing mutiny and giving my friends in Japan permission to post the video.

Again, TETKoba, you are very kind and generous. I hope JBS loads a video to show how to build a real FREVO so I can learn his secrets too. All that come here will know that you 2 are the developers of this technology.

Thank you. Feel free to load the video on YouTube.

AppalachianTrailCafe.net, get ready for the influx of TETKoba fans.

I have one question for you TETKoba. What did you do to your foot? :lol:

Thank you for the correction. I just done modification and re-uploading now.
Sorry, I can't understand your first sentence. If the relations of you and administrator turn worse, I don't open the video to public.

Did you see my instagram? Yes I ruptured an Achilles' tendon in January. I undergo rehabilitation now. Take care your foot too. It seems Achilles' tendon will rupture easily by body ageing(hahaha).

You just got a "k" my friend. Your post was 26 k (26000). We are silly over here. You are free to post video. How did you know I am getting old? Hahaha. I saw the cast cut off your foot on twitter. I think it was on twitter. I hope my next eFREVO works better. I made some changes. I will post pictures when I test it. Thank you for all your hard work on CHS technology.

odd man out · Apr 28th 2014, 9:00pm

BirdBrain wrote:

TETKoba · Apr 28th 2014, 9:04pm

This is re-uploaded video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjeyT5wlQms

Thank you. I'll delete old one and open this version.

BirdBrain · Apr 28th 2014, 9:07pm

I do not know effect of slanted creases or bent tabs. I am just trying to copy what JSB did. I know it looks pretty. I put JB Weld on top of the rim only as shown in the the eCHS Stove video by TETKoba.

Wise Old Owl · Apr 28th 2014, 10:20pm

AnotherKevin wrote:

stoviewander wrote:

I wish I had digital calipers. I had to estimate tenths of a millimeter with my calipers. I may have gotten lucky with my choice of cans.

Don't your analog calipers have a vernier scale? Reading an Imperial caliper down to .001 inch or a metric one down to (usually) .02 or .025 mm is a matter of knowing how to read the scales against each other. There are a couple of good how-to's on the web, or at least they more or less match what I learnt in shop class.

instructables.com/id/How-to-read-a-vernier-caliper/#step0

I admireyourpost...but on a less serious side... where was the flux capacitor?

BirdBrain · Apr 29th 2014, 12:21am

It is on YouTube now. Thank you TETKoba-san (would say sensei, but I do not know if it is proper. I think it would be if I understand the usage right).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjeyT5wlQms
And to those who are checking us out because of this video, let me introduce us to you. We are a mixed bag that love to hike and tinker. You will learn who likes what more. There is a lot of knowledge here and not just about stoves. We love to share and receive good ideas. So pull up a chair and join in the fun.

OzJacko · Apr 29th 2014, 1:51am

Hope this works.
First attempt to post a picture in cafe from phone.
Should be my BB stove on first field use at Grimwade hut on the Bibbulmun Track.
It boiled over half a litre in my (non lightweight, stainless steel) billy.
Only problem was my billy has a significant soot buildup from it's normal function of dangling above a firepit (will try and post second pic showing this), and the top of stove had some of this soot/sap mixture adhere to it.
Thanks BB!
Love it!

BirdBrain · Apr 29th 2014, 9:20am

I just ran a test on my latest eFREVO. I lit it a couple times before the boil test. As I suspected, the 0.5mm jets showed to much pressure. So I took a screwdriver to the creases and flattened them as much as I could. The flame was more stable and very blue. It still is not in balance. The amount of fuel being delivered to the hoop needs to be decreased. I am going to wait for a video on the FREVO or instruction from JSB before I tinker on this stove anymore. Here are my results.

16 oz (473ml) of water starting at 70°F (21°C)
20ml of Yellow Heet (Methanol)
Boot = 3 seconds
Boil = 3 minutes 29 seconds
Final burn = 5 minutes 9 seconds

This seems very fast and looks like good numbers. I will have to go back and look at my old tests for comparison. The CHS stoves run so well, that I have been testing them with 15ml of fuel. OMO, feel free to plug these numbers into your equation or give me the parameters that you require and I will retest.

I think the eFREVO has potential. I wish the flame was more stable. I anxiously await instruction from the one who likely knows the problems and the answer (JSB).

odd man out · Apr 29th 2014, 10:07am

BirdBrain wrote:

I just ran a test on my latest eFREVO. I lit it a couple times before the boil test. As I suspected, the 0.5mm jets showed to much pressure. So I took a screwdriver to the creases and flattened them as much as I could. The flame was more stable and very blue. It still is not in balance. The amount of fuel being delivered to the hoop needs to be decreased. I am going to wait for a video on the FREVO or instruction from JSB before I tinker on this stove anymore. Here are my results.

16 oz (473ml) of water starting at 70°F (21°C)
20ml of Yellow Heet (Methanol)
Boot = 3 seconds
Boil = 3 minutes 29 seconds
Final burn = 5 minutes 9 seconds

This seems very fast and looks like good numbers. I will have to go back and look at my old tests for comparison. The CHS stoves run so well, that I have been testing them with 15ml of fuel. OMO, feel free to plug these numbers into your equation or give me the parameters that you require and I will retest.

I think the eFREVO has potential. I wish the flame was more stable. I anxiously await instruction from the one who likely knows the problems and the answer (JSB).

Your test parameters are so different I'm not comfortable using them to make a comparison yet. My spreadsheet is set up for tests where there is less fuel and more water so you don't get to a boil and then you use deltaT to measure efficiency and deltaT/delta time to measure power. When I plug in numbers I get weird answers. Maybe I will make one today and can get good data.

BirdBrain · Apr 29th 2014, 10:17am

odd man out wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

I just ran a test on my latest eFREVO. I lit it a couple times before the boil test. As I suspected, the 0.5mm jets showed to much pressure. So I took a screwdriver to the creases and flattened them as much as I could. The flame was more stable and very blue. It still is not in balance. The amount of fuel being delivered to the hoop needs to be decreased. I am going to wait for a video on the FREVO or instruction from JSB before I tinker on this stove anymore. Here are my results.

16 oz (473ml) of water starting at 70°F (21°C)
20ml of Yellow Heet (Methanol)
Boot = 3 seconds
Boil = 3 minutes 29 seconds
Final burn = 5 minutes 9 seconds

This seems very fast and looks like good numbers. I will have to go back and look at my old tests for comparison. The CHS stoves run so well, that I have been testing them with 15ml of fuel. OMO, feel free to plug these numbers into your equation or give me the parameters that you require and I will retest.

I think the eFREVO has potential. I wish the flame was more stable. I anxiously await instruction from the one who likely knows the problems and the answer (JSB).

Your test parameters are so different I'm not comfortable using them to make a comparison yet. My spreadsheet is set up for tests where there is less fuel and more water so you don't get to a boil and then you use deltaT to measure efficiency and deltaT/delta time to measure power. When I plug in numbers I get weird answers. Maybe I will make one today and can get good data.

I found your parameters and retested.

24 oz starting at 21°C. 15ml of Yellow HEET (I do not have SLX). Max temp 76°C. Final burn 4:04. Not great. I am going back to the eCHS tinkering until I hear more from JSB or TETKoba. He shows a future link on his latest video that might help. I have learned from this experiment. Hopefully I can benefit from what I have learned.

odd man out · Apr 29th 2014, 11:39am

Based on these number, they are not all that difference. However this assumes the heat available from methanol is somewhat lower than the SLX (50/50) I used. Maybe I can try some comparisons of same stove with different fuel sometime to nail down the effect of this variable. It may be that the FREVO stove would work better with EtOH. It is less volatile so that may cut down on the amount of fuel getting to the jets.

BirdBrain · Apr 29th 2014, 11:59am

odd man out wrote:

Based on these number, they are not all that difference. However this assumes the heat available from methanol is somewhat lower than the SLX (50/50) I used. Maybe I can try some comparisons of same stove with different fuel sometime to nail down the effect of this variable. It may be that the FREVO stove would work better with EtOH. It is less volatile so that may cut down on the amount of fuel getting to the jets.

Thank you for that chart. That is better than I thought. I suspect I am benefiting from using a cone and as such my numbers might be inflated.

I will be honest. I am discouraged. I love the looks of the eFREVO. I love the rapid boot. But this concept is taking me away from my goal. Your work suggests that to improve things, the fuel consumption rate needs to be lowered. That is hard to do with this stove. I have all but flattened the creases and lowered the jet diameter to 0.5mm and it is still running too hot. I was able to slow it enough to keep the flame under the pot, but just barely.

On the up side, I have learned a lot about the creases. I have been too gentle with them. I am going to build another eCHS with the FREVO tabs and creases, but I am going to pinch them as much as I can after the collet is inserted. If I can slow the eCHS down a bit more, I might have something.

After this stove, I need to take a break. My son is coming home from college and he will need my time. You, SW, and our new friends from Japan will have to fill the void. I am hoping TETKoba's kind words on YouTube will bring others to the table.

BirdBrain · Apr 29th 2014, 2:00pm

The eCHS is truly a beautiful stove. This one has FREVO tabs and creases. It is my favorite one so far.

stoviewander · Apr 29th 2014, 3:17pm

odd man out wrote:

stoviewander wrote:

Here is the link to the steel can I used http://www.sciplus.com/p/ROUND-TINS-WITH-LIDS_54351

I went through the cupboards and found a can of La Preferida Green Chilies that might work for the steel can. The bottom is different from yours. but the rim on the bottom is flush with the sides and will fit inside the pop can. It's a snug, but not tight fit. It slides in easily but there is no gap. I measure it to be 21/2 inches, but it's hard to be sure without calipers. I also have a Little Friskies cat food can. It seems to be identical to the Vienna Sausages can, but it doesn't have the horizontal ridges. Not sure if those are critical.

I built another version with a 3 ounce potted meat container and a 2.6 ounce 45 minute Sterno can from 2008. I reduced the height of the steel can by a millimeter, ensuring the potted meat can rests on its cut bottom edge, not the flared portion near the top. Instead of removing the sharp inner edge near the top of the potted meat can, I rolled it flat against the side wall. The jet holes now pass through two layers of aluminum. The potted meat can slides easily into the Sterno can, by gravity alone. I hope the capillary action is still good. The potted meat can rides one millimeter higher in the Sterno can than it does in the tin from American Science & Surplus. The one millimeter difference shows up as a gap where the potted meat can does not reach the bottom of the Sterno can, but the Sterno can has a skinny trough at the bottom that should minimize the effect. Hopefully the jets will keep burning until all the fuel is used up. I did not reshape the bottom of the Sterno can. I expect the fuel to drain towards the trough and the side wall without adding a dome.

The burner looks deceptively simple on the inside, since there are no creases, and the cut edge of the potted meat can is in close contact with the side wall of the Sterno can.

Pictures 15 and 17 show the potted meat can in the Sterno can. Pictures 16 and 18 show the potted meat can in the tin from American Science & Surplus.

odd man out · Apr 29th 2014, 3:40pm

BTW, here is my spreadsheet in case anyone else wants to play with it.
Some cells are formulas you shouldn't change as they are calculated from the data.
You have to manually adjust the ranges of the regression and intercept formulas as the linear range of stove performance varies from trial to trial.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4z7xpd775h6k6hd/StoveSheetD.xlsx

stoviewander · Apr 29th 2014, 4:44pm

stoviewander wrote:

odd man out wrote:

stoviewander wrote:

The CHS-Lazy alcohol burner was inspired by the capillary hoop stove designs of JSB and TETKoba. The burner is 1 3/8" (35 mm) tall, 2 5/8" (66 mm) in diameter, and weighs 0.7 ounces (21 grams). The jets form quickly after lighting, and remain lit until the fuel is used up. The jets decrease in size for a brief time at the end of the burn. The three layer design and capillary action keep most of the heat near the jets, and away from the base. The burner should operate normally when placed directly on a cold surface....

Very nice. I will have to try this if I can find a steel can with the right specs. How did you cut the steel can? I would think that would be harder than the aluminum cans.

I use blunt tipped Fiskars scissors. They have held up surprisingly well to many cuts in aluminum and steel cans. I replaced the original pivot with a small steel screw.

Here is the link to the steel can I used http://www.sciplus.com/p/ROUND-TINS-WITH-LIDS_54351

The scissors I use are described differently on the Fiskars web site. I use an older model of these scissors: http://www2.fiskars.com/Kids-Activities-School/Products/Kids-Scissors/Pointed-tip-Kids-Scissors-5 - I kid you not.

stoviewander · Apr 29th 2014, 9:49pm

odd man out wrote:

stoviewander wrote:

Here is the link to the steel can I used http://www.sciplus.com/p/ROUND-TINS-WITH-LIDS_54351

I went through the cupboards and found a can of La Preferida Green Chilies that might work for the steel can. The bottom is different from yours. but the rim on the bottom is flush with the sides and will fit inside the pop can. It's a snug, but not tight fit. It slides in easily but there is no gap. I measure it to be 21/2 inches, but it's hard to be sure without calipers. I also have a Little Friskies cat food can. It seems to be identical to the Vienna Sausages can, but it doesn't have the horizontal ridges. Not sure if those are critical.

I want to see if the current 2.6 ounce Sterno can is the same diameter as the one I have from 2008, but I am not having any luck finding a local store that stocks them. They are sold in a pack of 3 cans.

You could use a 5 fluid ounce can of evaporated milk (various brands), with a 64 mm diameter. You can fill the 1 mm void between the milk can and the cat food can with paper towels, napkins, or toilet paper as a wick. Since it is shielded from oxygen and direct flame, the wick should last for a few burns or more, depending on how hot it gets. Make sure the wick reaches the last milliliter of fuel, so the last of the fuel burns in the jets, not in the bottom of the can. That way the wick should be cooled by evaporating fuel to the very end of the burn.

odd man out · Apr 29th 2014, 10:59pm

I saw in one video they used crumpled aluminum foil as a capillary wick. My stove building was a bust today. I couldn't get anything to work. Will have to shop for more cans before I can build another. I may just go back to the eCHS. At least I know how to do those.

BirdBrain · Apr 29th 2014, 11:11pm

odd man out wrote:

I saw in one video they used crumpled aluminum foil as a capillary wick. My stove building was a bust today. I couldn't get anything to work. Will have to shop for more cans before I can build another. I may just go back to the eCHS. At least I know how to do those.

The eFREVO is not so easy, especially the way I build it. :pinch:

I made another hybrid. I love making them pretty. This one has 14 creases and 7 jets.

stoviewander · Apr 30th 2014, 5:35am

I tested two versions of my CHS-Lazy burner tonight. The older one built with a Vienna sausage can in the tin from AS&S bloomed in 8 seconds with a good cyclone. The newer one built with a potted meat can in a Sterno can took 25 seconds to form jets, but they were very small and only appeared intermittently. The newer version bubbled much more than the older version.

The newer version has a dent near the bottom of the Sterno can. If the dent had not been present, the potted meat can probably could have been inserted farther into the Sterno can and would have formed a better seal. I have another Sterno can, but it has bigger dents.

stoviewander · Apr 30th 2014, 7:16am

I built a third version of my CHS-Lazy burner using the bottom 32 mm of a 5 fluid ounce evaporated milk can and the bottom 42 mm of an 8 fluid ounce soda can. I salvaged the top of the potted meat can from the second version. I stuffed 8 plies of toilet paper into the gap between the milk can and the potted meat can, being careful to not block the jet holes.

This third version bloomed in 10 seconds, and had the best jets of the three versions. I neglected to modify the bottom of the milk can, but there was not much fuel pooled at the bottom at the end of the burn..

The third version is 39 mm tall and weighs 26 grams.

stoviewander · Apr 30th 2014, 10:49am

odd man out wrote:

Have you determined that angling the creases helps?
Is the process for making an angled crease any different than one perpendicular to the rim?

I think there is a mathematical method to this madness. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ruled_hyperboloid.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperboloid#Hyperboloid_structures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperboloid_structure

The creases tend to be somewhat deeper in the middle, and shallower at the ends. If the creases are deep enough and wide enough in the middle, the capillary action will stop there and the top of the hoop will be dry. That may be what JSB intends. Am I right?

BirdBrain · Apr 30th 2014, 10:56am

My favorite on the right. My latest on the left. I go where the experiments take me. Once in a while I grasp what is happening. The one on the left has 14 creases and 7 jets. The one on the right has 16 creases and 8 jets. The one on the left has JB Weld under the rim to stop possible leakage as Silvio De Leonardo suggests. I honestly see no difference under the rim. I do not think the JB Weld is needed there. So far I like the one on the right best of any stove I have built. After I test them side by side I might change my mind. I go where the experiments take me. Now I have a Wiki article to read.

BirdBrain · Apr 30th 2014, 11:18am

stoviewander wrote:

odd man out wrote:

Have you determined that angling the creases helps?
Is the process for making an angled crease any different than one perpendicular to the rim?

I think there is a mathematical method to this madness. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ruled_hyperboloid.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperboloid#Hyperboloid_structures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperboloid_structure

The creases tend to be somewhat deeper in the middle, and shallower at the ends. If the creases are deep enough and wide enough in the middle, the capillary action will stop there and the top of the hoop will be dry. That may be what JSB intends. Am I right?

I notice one of his pictures shows the hoop being dry. I assumed it was because of the size. The CHS hoop is small. One of JSB's pictures suggests a 3 part construction will make possible a much larger hoop. As to the creases being larger in the middle, they are not. At least mine are not. I suppose one could force the creases to be deeper in the middle. My collet is a cylinder, not a hyperboloid. Hopefully JSB loads a video and clears the confusion.

stoviewander · Apr 30th 2014, 11:32am

If my understanding of the reason for the angled creases in the Frevo is correct, then I further speculate that keeping the top half of the hoop dry may reduce the thermal feedback somewhat, since the jets will be farther away from the point at which fuel is vaporized. This may be the critical insight that helps Bird Brain build a slower burning eFrevo.

stoviewander · Apr 30th 2014, 11:41am

BB - I think if you made the creases even less vertical, the hoop would inevitably turn into a hyperboloid, keeping the top half dry, reducing thermal feedback, and slowing down the burn.

BirdBrain · Apr 30th 2014, 12:26pm

stoviewander wrote:

BB - I think if you made the creases even less vertical, the hoop would inevitably turn into a hyperboloid, keeping the top half dry, reducing thermal feedback, and slowing down the burn.

It is possible. However, if I could create a hyperboloid, I would have created another hoop at the midpoint. The material resists this formation. In the wire hyperboloids, there is no material between the wires. The material in the can resists the inward formation. I am not saying you are wrong. Your theory is making me think about how it could be done. You are good at giving me food for thought. You have caused me to do many experiments. Yes, I am blaming you for much of my addiction. :silly:

There are 2 other matters in the FREVO to overcome. The open bowl lends itself to fuel in the bowl being burned. It is also hard to create a vortex. Even TETKoba had a hard time creating one. If one just wants raw power and speed, the FREVO design is your baby. It is possibly the fastest boiling alcohol stove out there. I want efficiency.

I know this much: JSB knows how to do it and he knows why it works. I keep looking at his pictures and scratching my head. His flame pattern is beautiful. His collet does not look that different from mine. Oh well. I guess that is what separates me from the masters.

In the mean time, I think I have the eCHS / FREVO hybrid down pat.

BirdBrain · Apr 30th 2014, 12:49pm

Damn you SW, you are forcing me to think. It hurts. I am going to make another stove tonight. I believe the key is in the hoop. I think I have a way to create a larger hoop. I will post pictures when I do it. The picture below is a successful FREVO submitted by JSB. I think this picture holds the answer.

stoviewander · Apr 30th 2014, 1:29pm

Bless you BB. Your counterarguments have forced me to build more burners to test my theories. I blame you too for the extent of my addiction. My name is Stovie Wander, and I am a recovering alcohol stove builder. It has been 7 hours since my last build - time to fall off the wagon

. I think I will build a chimney stove from a soda can and a Vienna sausage can.

stoviewander · Apr 30th 2014, 1:49pm

It might be helpful to know how Zelph puts ridges in pots made from Fosters cans. He creates ridges that bulge out, but it may be possible to adapt his technique to make an inward bulging channel. Or just create an outward bulging ridge in the outer can to stop capillary action at the desired height.

Please see http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5099 for examples.

odd man out · Apr 30th 2014, 1:58pm

stoviewander wrote:

Bless you BB. Your counterarguments have forced me to build more burners to test my theories. I blame you too for the extent of my addiction. My name is Stovie Wander, and I am a recovering alcohol stove builder. It has been 7 hours since my last build - time to fall off the wagon . I think I will build a chimney stove from a soda can and a Vienna sausage can.

After a bad Tuesday, I'm thinking I might go back to researching windscreens. There are a lot of variables having to do with air flow, oxygen supply, and performance in wind I have thought about but not tested. I've seen some examples of wind screens integrated into pot supports (up close to the stove). I played with these while ago but never tested them. Also performance in the field (i.e. wind) is a big issue. Maybe I need to build a wind tunnel so I can test under controlled conditions. Ug, this is getting out of hand.

odd man out · Apr 30th 2014, 1:59pm

odd man out wrote:

... Maybe I need to build a wind tunnel so I can test under controlled conditions. Ug, this is getting out of hand.

On the other hand, that is how the Wright Brothers invented the airplane!

BirdBrain · Apr 30th 2014, 2:39pm

odd man out wrote:

odd man out wrote:

... Maybe I need to build a wind tunnel so I can test under controlled conditions. Ug, this is getting out of hand.

On the other hand, that is how the Wright Brothers invented the airplane!

Those that don't tinker just puked, which only goes to show who are really the sick ones. :whistle:

Traffic Jam · Apr 30th 2014, 2:57pm

BirdBrain wrote:

odd man out wrote:

odd man out wrote:

... Maybe I need to build a wind tunnel so I can test under controlled conditions. Ug, this is getting out of hand.

On the other hand, that is how the Wright Brothers invented the airplane!

Those that don't tinker just puked. Those people are sick.

Funny, BB. I don't tinker. I find your stove building fascinating and wish my brain worked like all of yours.

stoviewander · Apr 30th 2014, 3:47pm

TJ - your patients are probably glad your brain works the way it does. When it comes to healthcare, "see one, do one, teach one" probably beats "gee, I wonder what would happen if ...".

Traffic Jam · Apr 30th 2014, 5:16pm

stoviewander wrote:

TJ - your patients are probably glad your brain works the way it does. When it comes to healthcare, "see one, do one, teach one" probably beats "gee, I wonder what would happen if ...".

You're right about that.

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