Alcohol Stoves

stoviewander · Apr 2nd 2014, 9:42am

BirdBrain wrote:

stoviewander wrote:

TrafficJam wrote:

I don't need no stinkin' practice to hitchhike. I stick out my thumb and I hear the squeal of the brakes. :lol:

(That's my cyber hiking pic)

You need to stick out your thumb?! :ohmy: Complete strangers have given me rides, but I never stuck my thumb out.

I soooooo soooooooooooooooo want to ask. I will refrain. I think the answered is inferred. It may have been better inferred if you put quotation marks around the 2nd time you typed "thumb".

I really was talking about the opposable digit on my hand (both times). And perhaps I should have said "lift" instead of "ride".

One time there was a problem at work and my boss told me to wave my magic wand and fix it. I told him I don't wave my magic wand in public.

milkman · Apr 2nd 2014, 10:19am

LIhikers wrote:

Here's a drill bit size chart.......

39/64ths just sounds cool.

BirdBrain · Apr 2nd 2014, 10:26am

milkman wrote:

LIhikers wrote:

Here's a drill bit size chart.......

39/64ths just sounds cool.

Holy Cow! That is a big hole!

BirdBrain · Apr 2nd 2014, 10:30am

Posting these for references for future questions:
These photos show how I mark and cut the can. I trim to the heights with scissors.

BirdBrain · Apr 2nd 2014, 10:32am

This is how I make the ribs. After the dents are made near the top and the tab gaps are made at the bottom, it is easy to crease the collet with a triangle file as shown. Try to get the ribs right in 2 trips around the can as you will cause fatigue cracks if you go many times.

odd man out · Apr 2nd 2014, 1:57pm

What are the "dents near the top"?

odd man out · Apr 2nd 2014, 1:58pm

Yes, the eyes are blue, but they don't usually look that blue. I think it was the flash.

BirdBrain · Apr 2nd 2014, 2:07pm

odd man out wrote:

What are the "dents near the top"?

Look at the 2nd picture on my last post. They are created by pushing down on the outside of the collet with a triangle file. They make a mark to line up with the slots cut at the bottom with a piece of a hacksaw blade. These 2 reference points make it easy to see where to press down to create the ribs as shown by the bottom picture in the same post.

stoviewander · Apr 2nd 2014, 4:29pm

BirdBrain wrote:

This is how I make the ribs. After the dents are made near the top and the tab gaps are made at the bottom, it is easy to crease the collet with a triangle file as shown. Try to get the ribs right in 2 trips around the can as you will cause fatigue cracks if you go many times.

To avoid fatigue cracks, I make the creases by pressing a 1/8" diameter rod into the side wall. I set up a flickr account today. I made another CHS-Unorthodox burner today and photographed the process. Please see https://www.flickr.com/photos/122148505@N07/13587399913/lightbox/

The tabs are different, and I removed essentially all of the flat area on the can top. The height is identical to my last version. After sunset, I will see how it works.

BirdBrain · Apr 2nd 2014, 5:31pm

stoviewander wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

This is how I make the ribs. After the dents are made near the top and the tab gaps are made at the bottom, it is easy to crease the collet with a triangle file as shown. Try to get the ribs right in 2 trips around the can as you will cause fatigue cracks if you go many times.

To avoid fatigue cracks, I make the creases by pressing a 1/8" diameter rod into the side wall. I set up a flickr account today. I made another CHS-Unorthodox burner today and photographed the process. Please see https://www.flickr.com/photos/122148505@N07/13587399913/lightbox/

The tabs are different, and I removed essentially all of the flat area on the can top. The height is identical to my last version. After sunset, I will see how it works.

I will hold off on predictions on effect of removing most of the flat area and wait to see if you have the same results as I have had by dong that. I do have 1 question though. Have you tried to make 18 ribs with the 1/8" rod? I find that difficult. I have also observed that the ribs need to be very small in volume to avoid pressure surging. I get no bubbles in the bowl until the fuel is almost gone.

stoviewander · Apr 2nd 2014, 6:06pm

BirdBrain wrote:

stoviewander wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

This is how I make the ribs. After the dents are made near the top and the tab gaps are made at the bottom, it is easy to crease the collet with a triangle file as shown. Try to get the ribs right in 2 trips around the can as you will cause fatigue cracks if you go many times.

To avoid fatigue cracks, I make the creases by pressing a 1/8" diameter rod into the side wall. I set up a flickr account today. I made another CHS-Unorthodox burner today and photographed the process. Please see https://www.flickr.com/photos/122148505@N07/13587399913/lightbox/

The tabs are different, and I removed essentially all of the flat area on the can top. The height is identical to my last version. After sunset, I will see how it works.

I will hold off on predictions on effect of removing most of the flat area and wait to see if you have the same results as I have had by dong that. I do have 1 question though. Have you tried to make 18 ribs with the 1/8" rod? I find that difficult. I have also observed that the ribs need to be very small in volume to avoid pressure surging. I get no bubbles in the bowl until the fuel is almost gone.

I made 16 ribs with the dull edge of my scissors (a 90 degree corner) in my first attempt (not posted). I think my fingers are too fat to make 18 ribs with the 1/8" rod, or anything else. I am too lazy to make that many ribs, and 13 seemed to work well enough. Why 13? The circumference of the can is 182 mm = 13 x 14 mm.

I saw the bubbles shortly after the bloom in yesterday's daylight test.

I am not sure what you mean by pressure surging. Are you implying that the bubbles are evidence of pressure surging? Or do you see pulsating jets? Or does the burner act like a pulse jet?

I have created numerous burners that act like a poorly designed pulse jet, with a slow and irregular pulse. They all had 1/8" holes, not pin holes.

BirdBrain · Apr 2nd 2014, 6:24pm

Yes. The bubbles are evidence of excess pressure in the hoop. This design does a great job of getting rid of this pressure. Surging is more visible in side burners. It appears more as a wave under the jets in center burners. It is hard to describe. It is like the jets want to glue themselves to the rim. A cupped action appears under a jet when too much fuel is forced through it. The cupping is the fuel that can't be burned quick enough, so it burnes below the jets. If there is no excess pressure, the jets are very well defined and no cupping appears. This surging is not as violent as with side burners. It took me a while to figure out what was causing it.

stoviewander · Apr 2nd 2014, 7:43pm

BirdBrain wrote:

Yes. The bubbles are evidence of excess pressure in the hoop. This design does a great job of getting rid of this pressure. Surging is more visible in side burners. It appears more as a wave under the jets in center burners. It is hard to describe. It is like the jets want to glue themselves to the rim. A cupped action appears under a jet when too much fuel is forced through it. The cupping is the fuel that can't be burned quick enough, so it burnes below the jets. If there is no excess pressure, the jets are very well defined and no cupping appears. This surging is not as violent as with side burners. It took me a while to figure out what was causing it.

Thanks. If I see bubbles I may reduce the number of ribs so the total volume in the ribs is reduced.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, what is a video worth? But then again, a thousand words takes up much less disk space. I may try a video sometime. Time to go test a burner.

Traffic Jam · Apr 2nd 2014, 8:09pm

I had a few issues when using my stove today, all operator error. First, I had a hard time knowing when it was lit and primed (is that the right word?). When I tested it several times at home, it was obvious when it bloomed, I could hear and see it. Today, I could neither hear or see it happen. I had to look really hard for the shimmer around the stove. The wind was an issue too. It wasn't very windy, just slightly breezy, and I used my makeshift windscreen, but the flame went out twice. I moved the stove to another spot and finally got some warm water but didn't get a boil before running out of fuel. I had to refill the stove 3 times (I think I spilled it when I was trying to find a better spot) and used about 55 ml of fuel. It was 3 pm by this time and all I'd had to eat was a Bonk Breaker for breakfast, so I gave up trying to get boiling water. It was hot enough for my freezer bag meal. Does it get easier with practice?

BirdBrain · Apr 2nd 2014, 8:14pm

TrafficJam wrote:

I had a few issues when using my stove today, all operator error. First, I had a hard time knowing when it was lit and primed (is that the right word?). When I tested it several times at home, it was obvious when it bloomed, I could hear and see it. Today, I could neither hear or see it happen. I had to look really hard for the shimmer around the stove. The wind was an issue too. It wasn't very windy, just slightly breezy, and I used my makeshift windscreen, but the flame went out twice. I moved the stove to another spot and finally got some warm water but didn't get a boil before running out of fuel. I had to refill the stove 3 times (I think I spilled it when I was trying to find a better spot) and used about 55 ml of fuel. It was 3 pm by this time and all I'd had to eat was a Bonk Breaker for breakfast, so I gave up trying to get boiling water. It was hot enough for my freezer bag meal. Does it get easier with practice?

Yes it does. Also it much better with a good windscreen. It is easier to see the flame in a cone and the wind will not effect it. It is the nuances of a alcohol stove that makes people hate them. It is what makes me love them.

Traffic Jam · Apr 2nd 2014, 8:19pm

BirdBrain · Apr 2nd 2014, 8:24pm

Where is your windscreen? Mind you, a windscreen becomes a wind funnel if it is not properly constructed or set up.

stoviewander · Apr 2nd 2014, 8:26pm

BirdBrain wrote:

TrafficJam wrote:

I had a few issues when using my stove today, all operator error. First, I had a hard time knowing when it was lit and primed (is that the right word?). When I tested it several times at home, it was obvious when it bloomed, I could hear and see it. Today, I could neither hear or see it happen. I had to look really hard for the shimmer around the stove. The wind was an issue too. It wasn't very windy, just slightly breezy, and I used my makeshift windscreen, but the flame went out twice. I moved the stove to another spot and finally got some warm water but didn't get a boil before running out of fuel. I had to refill the stove 3 times (I think I spilled it when I was trying to find a better spot) and used about 55 ml of fuel. It was 3 pm by this time and all I'd had to eat was a Bonk Breaker for breakfast, so I gave up trying to get boiling water. It was hot enough for my freezer bag meal. Does it get easier with practice?

Yes it does. Also it much better with a good windscreen. It is easier to see the flame in a cone and the wind will not effect it. It is the nuances of a alcohol stove that makes people hate them. It is what makes me love them.

Here is my 2 cents worth. If you put the stove in a shady spot on a sunny day, you may be able to see the flame if you shade your eyes with your hands so you only see the stove and the shady spot. That will block most of the light and may allow your pupils to dilate enough to see the flame. I mostly just look for the shimmer on sunny days. Now you know where to look for the shimmer.

Traffic Jam · Apr 2nd 2014, 8:27pm

BirdBrain wrote:

Where is your windscreen? Mind you, a windscreen becomes a wind funnel if it is not properly constructed or set up.

Ok. I confess. I used a big rock and my freezer bag cozy.

BirdBrain · Apr 2nd 2014, 8:35pm

TrafficJam wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

Where is your windscreen? Mind you, a windscreen becomes a wind funnel if it is not properly constructed or set up.

Ok. I confess. I used a big rock and my freezer bag cozy.

I can't find the proper emoticon. Need one laughing his butt off rolling on the floor. That ain't gonnna work. A good screen is an intrical part of an alcohol stove setup.

Traffic Jam · Apr 2nd 2014, 8:38pm

BirdBrain wrote:

TrafficJam wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

Where is your windscreen? Mind you, a windscreen becomes a wind funnel if it is not properly constructed or set up.

Ok. I confess. I used a big rock and my freezer bag cozy.

I can't find the proper emoticon. Need one laughing his butt off rolling on the floor. That ain't gonnna work. A good screen is an intrical part of an achohol stove setup.

Ha ha! My pack keeps getting heavier and heavier. The cafe has made me gain 5lbs at least!

jimmyjam · Apr 2nd 2014, 8:47pm

TrafficJam wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

Where is your windscreen? Mind you, a windscreen becomes a wind funnel if it is not properly constructed or set up.

Ok. I confess. I used a big rock and my freezer bag cozy.

Make a screen from some scrap aluminum and punch holes along the bottom with a paper punch. You only need a piece about 18" x 6". If they are building any houses near you, you might find a scrap. A whole roll is $10 at HD. Here's a picture of mine:

Traffic Jam · Apr 2nd 2014, 8:53pm

jimmyjam wrote:

TrafficJam wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

Where is your windscreen? Mind you, a windscreen becomes a wind funnel if it is not properly constructed or set up.

Ok. I confess. I used a big rock and my freezer bag cozy.

Make a screen from some scrap aluminum and punch holes along the bottom with a paper punch. You only need a piece about 18" x 6". If they are building any houses near you, you might find a scrap. A whole roll is $10 at HD. Here's a picture of mine:

Thanks JJ, that sounds easy enough.

stoviewander · Apr 2nd 2014, 8:56pm

Here is my latest CHS-Unorthodox burner. This version is easier to make and better looking, IMO. I made sizeable dents with a center punch, making it much easier to drill the holes at a 45 degree angle.

https://flic.kr/p/mGEW3X

I tested it with 15 ml of Klean-Strip denatured alcohol. It primed in 5 seconds and burned for 4 minutes 25 seconds. The jets shot out farther off center than the previous version, which I expected due to the new method I used to make the holes.

It takes 13 ml to just cover the domed part of the can bottom. That is what I used when testing my previous version.

I will wait for daylight to see if there are bubbles coming out at the bottom of the creases / ribs. I will also try boiling 2 cups of water.

jimmyjam · Apr 2nd 2014, 9:02pm

I'll post a better picture of the windscreen tomorrow. It has opposite folds on each end so that they hook together and a cut out for the pot handle. Stores inside the pot with everything else.

Traffic Jam · Apr 2nd 2014, 9:07pm

jimmyjam wrote:

I'll post a better picture of the windscreen tomorrow. It has opposite folds on each end so that they hook together and a cut out for the pot handle. Stores inside the pot with everything else.

I can manage punching holes. Now it's getting complicated! How do you fold the ends? And what do you use to cut aluminum?

BirdBrain · Apr 2nd 2014, 9:32pm

stoviewander wrote:

Here is my latest CHS-Unorthodox burner. This version is easier to make and better looking, IMO. I made sizeable dents with a center punch, making it much easier to drill the holes at a 45 degree angle.

https://flic.kr/p/mGEW3X

I tested it with 15 ml of Klean-Strip denatured alcohol. It primed in 5 seconds and burned for 4 minutes 25 seconds. The jets shot out farther off center than the previous version, which I expected due to the new method I used to make the holes.

It takes 13 ml to just cover the domed part of the can bottom. That is what I used when testing my previous version.

I will wait for daylight to see if there are bubbles coming out at the bottom of the creases / ribs. I will also try boiling 2 cups of water.

Checked out the pictures. Nice build!

jimmyjam · Apr 2nd 2014, 9:34pm

TrafficJam wrote:

jimmyjam wrote:

I'll post a better picture of the windscreen tomorrow. It has opposite folds on each end so that they hook together and a cut out for the pot handle. Stores inside the pot with everything else.

I can manage punching holes. Now it's getting complicated! How do you fold the ends? And what do you use to cut aluminum?

The aluminum is really thin. You can fold it with your fingers and cut it with regular scissors although it will dull them. I use tin snips. I file the edges after i cut them because they will be sharp.

drivel · Apr 2nd 2014, 9:35pm

TrafficJam wrote:

I had a few issues when using my stove today, all operator error. First, I had a hard time knowing when it was lit and primed (is that the right word?). When I tested it several times at home, it was obvious when it bloomed, I could hear and see it. Today, I could neither hear or see it happen. I had to look really hard for the shimmer around the stove. The wind was an issue too. It wasn't very windy, just slightly breezy, and I used my makeshift windscreen, but the flame went out twice. I moved the stove to another spot and finally got some warm water but didn't get a boil before running out of fuel. I had to refill the stove 3 times (I think I spilled it when I was trying to find a better spot) and used about 55 ml of fuel. It was 3 pm by this time and all I'd had to eat was a Bonk Breaker for breakfast, so I gave up trying to get boiling water. It was hot enough for my freezer bag meal. Does it get easier with practice?

Why not wait until the wind is not blowing like most people do?

Traffic Jam · Apr 2nd 2014, 9:40pm

drivel wrote:

TrafficJam wrote:

I had a few issues when using my stove today, all operator error. First, I had a hard time knowing when it was lit and primed (is that the right word?). When I tested it several times at home, it was obvious when it bloomed, I could hear and see it. Today, I could neither hear or see it happen. I had to look really hard for the shimmer around the stove. The wind was an issue too. It wasn't very windy, just slightly breezy, and I used my makeshift windscreen, but the flame went out twice. I moved the stove to another spot and finally got some warm water but didn't get a boil before running out of fuel. I had to refill the stove 3 times (I think I spilled it when I was trying to find a better spot) and used about 55 ml of fuel. It was 3 pm by this time and all I'd had to eat was a Bonk Breaker for breakfast, so I gave up trying to get boiling water. It was hot enough for my freezer bag meal. Does it get easier with practice?

Why not wait until the wind is not blowing like most people do?

The same reason it's uphill, both ways.

drivel · Apr 2nd 2014, 9:50pm

I don't use a stove. I have an app for that.

BirdBrain · Apr 3rd 2014, 1:12am

drivel wrote:

I don't use a stove. I have an app for that.

Is it an alcohol or canister stove app? How much does it weigh?

Rasty · Apr 3rd 2014, 1:19am

BirdBrain wrote:

drivel wrote:

I don't use a stove. I have an app for that.

Is it an alcohol or canister stove app? How much does it weigh?

Do you sleep?

BirdBrain · Apr 3rd 2014, 1:20am

jimmyjam wrote:

TrafficJam wrote:

jimmyjam wrote:

I'll post a better picture of the windscreen tomorrow. It has opposite folds on each end so that they hook together and a cut out for the pot handle. Stores inside the pot with everything else.

I can manage punching holes. Now it's getting complicated! How do you fold the ends? And what do you use to cut aluminum?

The aluminum is really thin. You can fold it with your fingers and cut it with regular scissors although it will dull them. I use tin snips. I file the edges after i cut them because they will be sharp.

Use the straight side of a knife or another piece of flashing to form the crease. If you just fold it, you run the risk of a fatigue crack.

BirdBrain · Apr 3rd 2014, 1:21am

Rasty wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

drivel wrote:

I don't use a stove. I have an app for that.

Is it an alcohol or canister stove app? How much does it weigh?

Do you sleep?

I work 2nd shift.

Rasty · Apr 3rd 2014, 1:24am

BirdBrain wrote:

Rasty wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

drivel wrote:

I don't use a stove. I have an app for that.

Is it an alcohol or canister stove app? How much does it weigh?

Do you sleep?

I work 2nd shift.

Me too

BirdBrain · Apr 3rd 2014, 1:26am

Rasty wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

Rasty wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

drivel wrote:

I don't use a stove. I have an app for that.

Is it an alcohol or canister stove app? How much does it weigh?

Do you sleep?

I work 2nd shift.

Me too

Just doing a bit of clean up. I am home now. It is hard to see some of the pictures on my 85-IQ-phone.

Rasty · Apr 3rd 2014, 1:33am

BirdBrain wrote:

Rasty wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

Rasty wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

drivel wrote:

I don't use a stove. I have an app for that.

Is it an alcohol or canister stove app? How much does it weigh?

Do you sleep?

I work 2nd shift.

Me too

Just doing a bit of clean up. I am home now. It is hard to see some of the pictures on my 85-IQ-phone.

You saw that post

BirdBrain · Apr 3rd 2014, 1:36am

Rasty wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

Rasty wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

Rasty wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

drivel wrote:

I don't use a stove. I have an app for that.

Is it an alcohol or canister stove app? How much does it weigh?

Do you sleep?

I work 2nd shift.

Me too

Just doing a bit of clean up. I am home now. It is hard to see some of the pictures on my 85-IQ-phone.

You saw that post

I see it all.

drivel · Apr 3rd 2014, 1:38am

BirdBrain wrote:

drivel wrote:

I don't use a stove. I have an app for that.

Is it an alcohol or canister stove app? How much does it weigh?

It's an LCD stove and it weighs 57 kb.

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