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Baxter State Park observations on thru hiker behavior in the park

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    • That fall through the ice could have turned out deadly. Had they not gone and searched and it did turn out badly, protesters would have been lining up in front of the office claiming that they need more training, wearing T-shirts that say "I can't swim". Not registering and no reservations automatically equals recklessness. Maybe it's part of the new HYOH mentality.
      Changes Daily→ ♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫ ♪♫♪♫♪♫ ← Don't blame me. It's That Lonesome Guitar.

    • hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I don't understand why they felt the need to rescue him? It sounds like they took it on themselves to rescue someone who did fine on his own.

      yes, he should have registered


      "rangers became aware of the situation"
      I assume his partner told the rangers about his friend.


      Yeah, there has to be some missing info. I can't believe they launched a rescue based on the only facts they gave about the situation.

      "After entering the Park without registering and camping for several nights at Roaring Brook and Chimney Pond without reservations..."
      "The hiker had only a tent, light boots and minimal gear"

      I know of several competent hikers who are fine with a tent, light boots, and minimal gear.
      Lost in the right direction.

    • TrafficJam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I don't understand why they felt the need to rescue him? It sounds like they took it on themselves to rescue someone who did fine on his own.

      yes, he should have registered


      "rangers became aware of the situation"
      I assume his partner told the rangers about his friend.


      Yeah, there has to be some missing info. I can't believe they launched a rescue based on the only facts they gave about the situation.

      "After entering the Park without registering and camping for several nights at Roaring Brook and Chimney Pond without reservations..."
      "The hiker had only a tent, light boots and minimal gear"

      I know of several competent hikers who are fine with a tent, light boots, and minimal gear.


      not on katahdin in winter you havent
      its all good

    • TrafficJam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I don't understand why they felt the need to rescue him? It sounds like they took it on themselves to rescue someone who did fine on his own.

      yes, he should have registered


      "rangers became aware of the situation"
      I assume his partner told the rangers about his friend.


      Yeah, there has to be some missing info. I can't believe they launched a rescue based on the only facts they gave about the situation.

      "After entering the Park without registering and camping for several nights at Roaring Brook and Chimney Pond without reservations..."
      "The hiker had only a tent, light boots and minimal gear"

      I know of several competent hikers who are fine with a tent, light boots, and minimal gear.


      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I don't understand why they felt the need to rescue him? It sounds like they took it on themselves to rescue someone who did fine on his own.

      yes, he should have registered


      "rangers became aware of the situation"
      I assume his partner told the rangers about his friend.


      Yeah, there has to be some missing info. I can't believe they launched a rescue based on the only facts they gave about the situation.

      "After entering the Park without registering and camping for several nights at Roaring Brook and Chimney Pond without reservations..."
      "The hiker had only a tent, light boots and minimal gear"

      I know of several competent hikers who are fine with a tent, light boots, and minimal gear.


      not on katahdin in winter you havent

      Very cold ones
      Cheesecake> Ramen :thumbsup:

    • hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I don't understand why they felt the need to rescue him? It sounds like they took it on themselves to rescue someone who did fine on his own.

      yes, he should have registered


      "rangers became aware of the situation"
      I assume his partner told the rangers about his friend.


      Yeah, there has to be some missing info. I can't believe they launched a rescue based on the only facts they gave about the situation.

      "After entering the Park without registering and camping for several nights at Roaring Brook and Chimney Pond without reservations..."
      "The hiker had only a tent, light boots and minimal gear"

      I know of several competent hikers who are fine with a tent, light boots, and minimal gear.


      not on katahdin in winter you havent


      I'm sure you are right.

      My point is... how do we know he wasn't planning on spending the night up there? If he was, let him suffer the consequences. Nowhere does it say who alerted park authorities. Was it a casual remark make to a ranger? Was the dude supposed to meet his friend and didn't show up so the friend alerted them? I prefer to reserve judgment until the facts are a little clearer.
      Lost in the right direction.

    • TrafficJam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I don't understand why they felt the need to rescue him? It sounds like they took it on themselves to rescue someone who did fine on his own.

      yes, he should have registered


      "rangers became aware of the situation"
      I assume his partner told the rangers about his friend.


      Yeah, there has to be some missing info. I can't believe they launched a rescue based on the only facts they gave about the situation.

      "After entering the Park without registering and camping for several nights at Roaring Brook and Chimney Pond without reservations..."
      "The hiker had only a tent, light boots and minimal gear"

      I know of several competent hikers who are fine with a tent, light boots, and minimal gear.


      not on katahdin in winter you havent


      I'm sure you are right.

      My point is... how do we know he wasn't planning on spending the night up there? If he was, let him suffer the consequences. Nowhere does it say who alerted park authorities. Was it a casual remark make to a ranger? Was the dude supposed to meet his friend and didn't show up so the friend alerted them? I prefer to reserve judgment until the facts are a little clearer.


      he broke several rules and went unprepared, leading to an expensive rescue.
      "eventually reach the Roaring Brook Road after falling through ice and spending an uncomfortable night in the woods"

      this could have had a very different ending. I don't give this guy the benefit of a doubt. winter solo hiking, you better have a good itinerary laid out that you can stick to.you cant climb katahdin in winter without a special permit.
      its all good

    • hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I don't understand why they felt the need to rescue him? It sounds like they took it on themselves to rescue someone who did fine on his own.

      yes, he should have registered


      "rangers became aware of the situation"
      I assume his partner told the rangers about his friend.


      Yeah, there has to be some missing info. I can't believe they launched a rescue based on the only facts they gave about the situation.

      "After entering the Park without registering and camping for several nights at Roaring Brook and Chimney Pond without reservations..."
      "The hiker had only a tent, light boots and minimal gear"

      I know of several competent hikers who are fine with a tent, light boots, and minimal gear.


      not on katahdin in winter you havent


      I'm sure you are right.

      My point is... how do we know he wasn't planning on spending the night up there? If he was, let him suffer the consequences. Nowhere does it say who alerted park authorities. Was it a casual remark make to a ranger? Was the dude supposed to meet his friend and didn't show up so the friend alerted them? I prefer to reserve judgment until the facts are a little clearer.


      he broke several rules and went unprepared, leading to an expensive rescue.
      "eventually reach the Roaring Brook Road after falling through ice and spending an uncomfortable night in the woods"

      this could have had a very different ending. I don't give this guy the benefit of a doubt. winter solo hiking, you better have a good itinerary laid out that you can stick to.you cant climb katahdin in winter without a special permit.


      I'm not disagreeing with you. He was an idiot. I don't think you understand what I'm saying so I'll just stop trying to explain.
      Lost in the right direction.

    • TrafficJam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I don't understand why they felt the need to rescue him? It sounds like they took it on themselves to rescue someone who did fine on his own.

      yes, he should have registered


      "rangers became aware of the situation"
      I assume his partner told the rangers about his friend.


      Yeah, there has to be some missing info. I can't believe they launched a rescue based on the only facts they gave about the situation.

      "After entering the Park without registering and camping for several nights at Roaring Brook and Chimney Pond without reservations..."
      "The hiker had only a tent, light boots and minimal gear"

      I know of several competent hikers who are fine with a tent, light boots, and minimal gear.


      not on katahdin in winter you havent


      I'm sure you are right.

      My point is... how do we know he wasn't planning on spending the night up there? If he was, let him suffer the consequences. Nowhere does it say who alerted park authorities. Was it a casual remark make to a ranger? Was the dude supposed to meet his friend and didn't show up so the friend alerted them? I prefer to reserve judgment until the facts are a little clearer.


      he broke several rules and went unprepared, leading to an expensive rescue.
      "eventually reach the Roaring Brook Road after falling through ice and spending an uncomfortable night in the woods"

      this could have had a very different ending. I don't give this guy the benefit of a doubt. winter solo hiking, you better have a good itinerary laid out that you can stick to.you cant climb katahdin in winter without a special permit.


      I'm not disagreeing with you. He was an idiot. I don't think you understand what I'm saying so I'll just stop trying to explain.


      tj, I do understand what youre saying. baxter has rules there for a reason, they need to know whos in the park and where they intend to hike so that they don't have to go off rescuing people. by registering for a climb or even reserve a campsite, the ranger has a chance to assess ability to advise accordingly. this guy just did wtf he wanted to with no regard for baxters rules, posted at every entrance.
      its all good

    • TrafficJam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      I don't understand why they felt the need to rescue him? It sounds like they took it on themselves to rescue someone who did fine on his own.

      yes, he should have registered


      "rangers became aware of the situation"
      I assume his partner told the rangers about his friend.


      Yeah, there has to be some missing info. I can't believe they launched a rescue based on the only facts they gave about the situation.

      "After entering the Park without registering and camping for several nights at Roaring Brook and Chimney Pond without reservations..."
      "The hiker had only a tent, light boots and minimal gear"

      I know of several competent hikers who are fine with a tent, light boots, and minimal gear.


      not on katahdin in winter you havent


      I'm sure you are right.

      My point is... how do we know he wasn't planning on spending the night up there? If he was, let him suffer the consequences. Nowhere does it say who alerted park authorities. Was it a casual remark make to a ranger? Was the dude supposed to meet his friend and didn't show up so the friend alerted them? I prefer to reserve judgment until the facts are a little clearer.


      he broke several rules and went unprepared, leading to an expensive rescue.
      "eventually reach the Roaring Brook Road after falling through ice and spending an uncomfortable night in the woods"

      this could have had a very different ending. I don't give this guy the benefit of a doubt. winter solo hiking, you better have a good itinerary laid out that you can stick to.you cant climb katahdin in winter without a special permit.


      I'm not disagreeing with you. He was an idiot. I don't think you understand what I'm saying so I'll just stop trying to explain.


      TJ, I get what you mean. Very often when reading S&R stories where a third party called for the rescue I think to myself myself that the hiker's response should have been " I didn't ask for your help and I don't want it."

      However like HB said, Baxter has it's own rules and this guy was trespassing and ignoring all regulations. Still not sure I agree that it's ressonable to charge him $10,000...
      Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    • max.patch wrote:

      jeannie, of course.

      samantha can be a real witch at times.

      with samantha you have to deal with the mother-in-law from hell.

      and if jeannie gets on your nerves you can lock her in her bottle. :)

      [IMG:http://img2-2.timeinc.net/ew/i/2011/06/22/sexy-couple/i-dream-of-jeannie_610.jpg]


      If I pick Jeannie, does that mean I get to be an astronaut also? Pretty interesting job to have when you are not hiking.
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General

    • more than one person has suggested that the way to solve the trash problem in georgia is to place trash cans on the forest service road where the trail crosses it.

      news flash. they used to do that. had one in the springer parking lot, another at hightower gap, and 2 at gooch gap. they've been removed. bears know what is in trash cans. hikers would place trash on the ground next to the cans if they were full. that experiment failed.
      2,000 miler

    • where does TOS get these people?

      "Time to deny out of country visitors who want to thru-hike?

      I am wondering what the overall idea of denying temp visa's to people who are not United States citizens who come to the USA with the intention of thru-hiking the AT. Would this help lower and slow the amount of hikers who start at Springer each year? Laurie P said that 50 people starting a day is unsustainable so this would lower than number who leave each day."
      2,000 miler

    • max.patch wrote:

      more than one person has suggested that the way to solve the trash problem in georgia is to place trash cans on the forest service road where the trail crosses it.

      news flash. they used to do that. had one in the springer parking lot, another at hightower gap, and 2 at gooch gap. they've been removed. bears know what is in trash cans. hikers would place trash on the ground next to the cans if they were full. that experiment failed.


      Do you know what kind of cans they used? I thought the bear dumpsters worked pretty good. The first time I saw one it took me a while to figure out how to open it. ^^
      Lost in the right direction.

    • they were just standard issue brown usfs metal trash cans. nothing special.

      rather than incurring the expense of bear proof dumpsters for hikers to use (rather than to carry out what they already carry in) they should install bear proof food vaults at the georgia shelters. that would protect the bears from getting hiker food from trees and becoming habituated to that food source. that idea has not been met with approval as it is speculated that once these bear vaults are installed that hikers will use them as trash cans and the trail maintainers will have to regularly clean them out.
      2,000 miler

    • max.patch wrote:

      where does TOS get these people?

      "Time to deny out of country visitors who want to thru-hike?

      I am wondering what the overall idea of denying temp visa's to people who are not United States citizens who come to the USA with the intention of thru-hiking the AT. Would this help lower and slow the amount of hikers who start at Springer each year? Laurie P said that 50 people starting a day is unsustainable so this would lower than number who leave each day."


      i hardly ever look at tos unless someone here points something out.I took a look at tos and I cant believe the crap people are posting. if I was allowed on there, it wouldn't take long for me to be banned again.
      its all good

    • TrafficJam wrote:



      Do you know what kind of cans they used? I thought the bear dumpsters worked pretty good. The first time I saw one it took me a while to figure out how to open it. ^^

      I'll bet that's because you didn't speak bear.
      Have you seen the video?
      Take a look at it and the next time you have trouble just ask one.
      Changes Daily→ ♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫ ♪♫♪♫♪♫ ← Don't blame me. It's That Lonesome Guitar.

    • hikerboy wrote:

      max.patch wrote:

      where does TOS get these people?

      "Time to deny out of country visitors who want to thru-hike?

      I am wondering what the overall idea of denying temp visa's to people who are not United States citizens who come to the USA with the intention of thru-hiking the AT. Would this help lower and slow the amount of hikers who start at Springer each year? Laurie P said that 50 people starting a day is unsustainable so this would lower than number who leave each day."


      i hardly ever look at tos unless someone here points something out.I took a look at tos and I cant believe the crap people are posting. if I was allowed on there, it wouldn't take long for me to be banned again.


      me too!

      i sure wish oz could respond to the above post!
      2,000 miler

    • milkman wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:



      Do you know what kind of cans they used? I thought the bear dumpsters worked pretty good. The first time I saw one it took me a while to figure out how to open it. ^^

      I'll bet that's because you didn't speak bear.
      Have you seen the video?
      Take a look at it and the next time you have trouble just ask one.


      Unfortunately, I'm not fluent in bear. In fact, the first time I saw one of those bear dumpsters, I really couldn't figure it out. I stood there forever and got really embarrassed so I waited until it got dark to try again. I figured it out the second time. :D
      Lost in the right direction.

    • max.patch wrote:

      more than one person has suggested that the way to solve the trash problem in georgia is to place trash cans on the forest service road where the trail crosses it.

      news flash. they used to do that. had one in the springer parking lot, another at hightower gap, and 2 at gooch gap. they've been removed. bears know what is in trash cans. hikers would place trash on the ground next to the cans if they were full. that experiment failed.


      My trash after 5 days won't fill a pint size zip-lock bag and weighs about 4 ounces. It isn't that hard to carry even for a gram weenie.
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123

    • hikerboy wrote:

      max.patch wrote:

      where does TOS get these people?

      "Time to deny out of country visitors who want to thru-hike?

      I am wondering what the overall idea of denying temp visa's to people who are not United States citizens who come to the USA with the intention of thru-hiking the AT. Would this help lower and slow the amount of hikers who start at Springer each year? Laurie P said that 50 people starting a day is unsustainable so this would lower than number who leave each day."


      i hardly ever look at tos unless someone here points something out.I took a look at tos and I cant believe the crap people are posting. if I was allowed on there, it wouldn't take long for me to be banned again.


      Mike Smith only got that one post and his IP Addresses were banned.
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123

    • max.patch wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      max.patch wrote:

      where does TOS get these people?

      "Time to deny out of country visitors who want to thru-hike?

      I am wondering what the overall idea of denying temp visa's to people who are not United States citizens who come to the USA with the intention of thru-hiking the AT. Would this help lower and slow the amount of hikers who start at Springer each year? Laurie P said that 50 people starting a day is unsustainable so this would lower than number who leave each day."


      i hardly ever look at tos unless someone here points something out.I took a look at tos and I cant believe the crap people are posting. if I was allowed on there, it wouldn't take long for me to be banned again.


      me too!

      i sure wish oz could respond to the above post!


      He might not be able to. He might have got caught up in when they (Gator) were banning people like crazy a while back.
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General

    • Rasty wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      max.patch wrote:

      where does TOS get these people?

      "Time to deny out of country visitors who want to thru-hike?

      I am wondering what the overall idea of denying temp visa's to people who are not United States citizens who come to the USA with the intention of thru-hiking the AT. Would this help lower and slow the amount of hikers who start at Springer each year? Laurie P said that 50 people starting a day is unsustainable so this would lower than number who leave each day."


      i hardly ever look at tos unless someone here points something out.I took a look at tos and I cant believe the crap people are posting. if I was allowed on there, it wouldn't take long for me to be banned again.


      Mike Smith only got that one post and his IP Addresses were banned.


      Can you go up to say McDonalds and get on?
      Changes Daily→ ♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫ ♪♫♪♫♪♫ ← Don't blame me. It's That Lonesome Guitar.

    • just bill came up with something a day or so ago that makes no sense to solve the "problem" of too many hikers starting at springer.

      he wants to make everyone hike the approach trail, thus having everyone start at amicalola state park. after they buy their permit, they would be required to get educated at the park re trash, lnt, pooping, etc. before departing on their trip. to ensure that everyone starts from amicalola he wants "the road" to the springer parking lot gated thru june.

      i am not going to discuss his master plan to start at amicalola. i am only to discuss his plan to gate "the road" to springer. at least 2 other people have jumped on the gate the road bandwagon.

      there is not "a road" to springer. he is referring to usfs 42 from the elijay side. this road continues on to suches (approx mile 20) where it can also be accessed. but thats not all. going from memory and not looking at a map there are 5 other forest service roads that connect with usfs 42. these would all have to be gated.

      so where do we place the gates? can't just place the gate where the fs road starts off the pavement. there are houses on some of those roads.

      noontoola creek is one the most scenic and prime spots in georgia to fish for native (unstocked) trout. gating the fs roads will prohibit access to noontootla. trout season is georgia starts the last saturday in march.

      there is a church pavillion and cemetary just 100 yards from the trail at about mile 6. you gate the forest service roads then you remove access to the cemetary. i don't know, but would be willing to bet that it would be unlawful to deny the church access to their property.

      ok, so lets say the gate proponents make an exception to gating all the roads and allow fishermen access to noontootla and the church access to their property and gate at that point. at that point you are 4 easy trail miles from springer so what have you accomplished?

      why require people who want to hike the bmt to hike the approach trail to get there?

      but the biggest flaw in their plan to "gate the road" to springer is that while you have successfully forced all thrus to start at amicalola, you have basically eliminated the first 20 miles of the a.t. in georgia to the rest of the world until july. dayhikers and backpackers have 2 options -- start at amicalola and hike north or start at woody and hike south.

      this proposal has zero chance of being implemented.



      2,000 miler

      The post was edited 1 time, last by max.patch ().

    • milkman wrote:

      Rasty wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      max.patch wrote:

      where does TOS get these people?

      "Time to deny out of country visitors who want to thru-hike?

      I am wondering what the overall idea of denying temp visa's to people who are not United States citizens who come to the USA with the intention of thru-hiking the AT. Would this help lower and slow the amount of hikers who start at Springer each year? Laurie P said that 50 people starting a day is unsustainable so this would lower than number who leave each day."


      i hardly ever look at tos unless someone here points something out.I took a look at tos and I cant believe the crap people are posting. if I was allowed on there, it wouldn't take long for me to be banned again.


      Mike Smith only got that one post and his IP Addresses were banned.


      Can you go up to say McDonalds and get on?


      I can. I don't
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123

    • max.patch wrote:

      just bill came up with something a day or so ago that makes no sense to solve the "problem" of too many hikers starting at springer.

      he wants to make everyone hike the approach trail, thus having everyone start at amicalola state park. after they buy their permit, they would be required to get educated at the park re trash, lnt, pooping, etc. before departing on their trip. to ensure that everyone starts from amicalola he wants "the road" to the springer parking lot gated thru june.

      i am not going to discuss his master plan to start at amicalola. i am only to discuss his plan to gated "the road" to springer. at least 2 other people have jumped on the gate the road bandwagon.

      there is not "a road" to springer. he is referring to usfs 42 from the elijay side. this road continues on to suches (approx mile 20) where it can also be accessed. but thats not all. going from memory and not looking at a map there are 5 other forest service roads that connect with usfs 42. these would all have to be gated.

      so where do we place the gates? can't just place the gate where the fs road starts off the pavement. there are houses on some of those roads.

      noontoola creek is one the most scenic and prime spots in georgia to fish for native (unstocked) trout. gating the fs roads will prohibit access to noontootla. trout season is georgia starts the last saturday in march.

      there is a church pavillion and cemetary just 100 yards from the trail at about mile 6. you gate the forest service roads then you remove access to the cemetary. i don't know, but would be willing to bet that it would be unlawful to deny the church access to their property.

      ok, so lets say the gate proponents make an exception to gating all the roads and allow fishermen access to noontootla and the church access to their property and gate at that point. at that point you are 4 easy trail miles from springer so what have you accomplished?

      why require people who want to hike the bmt to hike the approach trail to get there?

      but the biggest flaw in their plan to "gate the road" to springer t


      Remove most of the shelters and the problem will go away.
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123