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Baxter State Park observations on thru hiker behavior in the park

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    • milkman wrote:

      All I know is that the Alabama portion of the Pinhoti Trail sucks. Don't bother going there. There's no water and resupply sucks. Locals look at hikers as homeless hobo's. You cant get a ride and if you do, you don't know where you may end up. At night you can hear banjo music. Noises that sound like pigs squealing. Stick to the AT. It's safer. Work with the folks at Baxter, the AMC and the ATC and try to compromise. The AT is the way to go. The Pinhoti is a lost cause. Don't bother.

      Either I hiked the best part of the Alabama Pinhoti, or you are just trying to keep the crowds away. ;)
      I am human and I need to be loved - just like everybody else does

    • WanderingStovie wrote:

      milkman wrote:

      All I know is that the Alabama portion of the Pinhoti Trail sucks. Don't bother going there. There's no water and resupply sucks. Locals look at hikers as homeless hobo's. You cant get a ride and if you do, you don't know where you may end up. At night you can hear banjo music. Noises that sound like pigs squealing. Stick to the AT. It's safer. Work with the folks at Baxter, the AMC and the ATC and try to compromise. The AT is the way to go. The Pinhoti is a lost cause. Don't bother.

      Either I hiked the best part of the Alabama Pinhoti, or you are just trying to keep the crowds away. ;)


      Shhhhhhh.
      Changes Daily→ ♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫ ♪♫♪♫♪♫ ← Don't blame me. It's That Lonesome Guitar.

    • milkman wrote:

      All I know is that the Alabama portion of the Pinhoti Trail sucks. Don't bother going there. There's no water and resupply sucks. Locals look at hikers as homeless hobo's. You cant get a ride and if you do, you don't know where you may end up. At night you can hear banjo music. Noises that sound like pigs squealing. Stick to the AT. It's safer. Work with the folks at Baxter, the AMC and the ATC and try to compromise. The AT is the way to go. The Pinhoti is a lost cause. Don't bother.


      i see what you're doing here.... :)
      2,000 miler

    • max.patch wrote:

      milkman wrote:

      All I know is that the Alabama portion of the Pinhoti Trail sucks. Don't bother going there. There's no water and resupply sucks. Locals look at hikers as homeless hobo's. You cant get a ride and if you do, you don't know where you may end up. At night you can hear banjo music. Noises that sound like pigs squealing. Stick to the AT. It's safer. Work with the folks at Baxter, the AMC and the ATC and try to compromise. The AT is the way to go. The Pinhoti is a lost cause. Don't bother.


      i see what you're doing here.... :)

      Spread the word. Tell all your friends. Tell them to tell their friends. We don't want anybody. - Getting hurt that is. We don't want anybody getting hurt.
      Changes Daily→ ♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫ ♪♫♪♫♪♫ ← Don't blame me. It's That Lonesome Guitar.

    • milkman wrote:

      max.patch wrote:

      milkman wrote:

      All I know is that the Alabama portion of the Pinhoti Trail sucks. Don't bother going there. There's no water and resupply sucks. Locals look at hikers as homeless hobo's. You cant get a ride and if you do, you don't know where you may end up. At night you can hear banjo music. Noises that sound like pigs squealing. Stick to the AT. It's safer. Work with the folks at Baxter, the AMC and the ATC and try to compromise. The AT is the way to go. The Pinhoti is a lost cause. Don't bother.


      i see what you're doing here.... :)

      Spread the word. Tell all your friends. Tell them to tell their friends. We don't want anybody. - Getting hurt that is. We don't want anybody getting hurt.


      for a second i thot minnesota smith hijacked your account.
      2,000 miler

    • milkman wrote:

      All I know is that the Alabama portion of the Pinhoti Trail sucks. Don't bother going there. There's no water and resupply sucks. Locals look at hikers as homeless hobo's. You cant get a ride and if you do, you don't know where you may end up. At night you can hear banjo music. Noises that sound like pigs squealing. Stick to the AT. It's safer. Work with the folks at Baxter, the AMC and the ATC and try to compromise. The AT is the way to go. The Pinhoti is a lost cause. Don't bother.


      Lies
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123

    • rhjanes wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      i dont remember half of my 20s.
      my friends tell me i had a lot of fun


      Well it was the 70's- don't you remember me?


      no



      I was the one with long hair and faded jeans in the blue cloud.
      .....wait till you sport blue-hair


      I was in kindergarten
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123

    • TrafficJam wrote:

      A.T.Lt wrote:

      Astro wrote:

      SarcasmTheElf wrote:

      muddywaters wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      Wow there are apparently more self entitled self centered a holes out there than i thought.


      You must not get around much.

      I blame Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburg for much of our issues today.

      The rest, belongs to Steve Jobs.


      It goes far beyond that, there was a "self esteem" initative that was pushed onto educators nationwide starting iirc in the 1980's. Everyone got a trophy or a ribbon, everyone was taught how great they were, and the parents ate it up and wanted more and more of it. Unfortunately the result was a lot of kids with really screwed up egos. I went through this nonsense as a kid and it took me quite a while to learn how to get over myself, sadly many others never did.


      This is a few years old, but I believe it pretty much captures it.

      cbsnews.com/videos/the-age-of-the-millenials/


      It is crazy how different things are, I graduated HS, went to college and got , not a job, but a career at age 21.. by 26 I owned a house and had been working at the same place for 5 years. I have been working/employed in some sort of capacity since I was 12 years old. Im not saying that is the right way...I don't know what is the right way. Now at 42 years old i feel like I might have been doing it all wrong. I also feel like life has just begun. Im less concerned now about work, work, work and am more interested in making life work for me. Look at the brighter side of things and keep reminding myself that IT'S ALL GOOD!!


      I missed out on a lot in my 20's and 30's but I sure am enjoying my 40's! gif.014.gif


      It get even better in your 50s. :thumbup:
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General

    • hikerboy wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      i dont remember half of my 20s.
      my friends tell me i had a lot of fun


      Well it was the 70's- don't you remember me?


      no



      I was the one with long hair and faded jeans in the blue cloud.


      are you the guy I kicked in the nuts?
      was that you?



      You know I've got ask just what the hell kind of a comment is that?
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference

    • jimmyjam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      i dont remember half of my 20s.
      my friends tell me i had a lot of fun


      Well it was the 70's- don't you remember me?


      no



      I was the one with long hair and faded jeans in the blue cloud.


      are you the guy I kicked in the nuts?
      was that you?



      You know I've got ask just what the hell kind of a comment is that?


      just sayin'
      its all good

    • My experiences are somewhat different from those above. The vast majority of thru hikers I meet are SOBO and are in Georgia, about to finish. I'm yet to have a encounter that was less than positive. Maybe its because they are SOBO and usually by themselves and not grouped in with the bubble. I assume many are hiking because they actually want to hike and stay away from the migrating crowds and parties. Maybe it's because they have been on the trail for several months and are humbled.
      This past Friday I ran into a SOBO named Saw Bones at the Stover Creek Shelter. He was alone. I stopped to have a snack before making the last mile or two to the parking lot and ended up talking to him for a long time. He was a paramedic from Pennsylvania and was just as interested in my stories as I was in his. A genuinely nice young guy. If the closest town wasn't so far away I would have taken him for a hot meal and a few beers. Not because he was a thru hiker but because he was a nice guy who could probably use a good meal. I guess the point I'm making is that the self entitled douchbags probably become that way, in part, because of the pack mentality. But then again I could be wrong.
      RIAP

    • hikerboy wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      i dont remember half of my 20s.
      my friends tell me i had a lot of fun


      Well it was the 70's- don't you remember me?


      no



      I was the one with long hair and faded jeans in the blue cloud.


      are you the guy I kicked in the nuts?
      was that you?


      Does that really narrow it down?
      Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    • SarcasmTheElf wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      i dont remember half of my 20s.
      my friends tell me i had a lot of fun


      Well it was the 70's- don't you remember me?


      no



      I was the one with long hair and faded jeans in the blue cloud.


      are you the guy I kicked in the nuts?
      was that you?


      Does that really narrow it down?


      no.
      its all good

    • hikerboy wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      well HB that is a dumb sayin.


      well i really had just connected a vague memory of someone with long hair and blue jeans, and when i saw your byline"dazed and confused" the two linked
      if it was you, im really sorry


      wasn't me. i have not been to ny in 44 years
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference

    • jimmyjam wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      jimmyjam wrote:

      well HB that is a dumb sayin.


      well i really had just connected a vague memory of someone with long hair and blue jeans, and when i saw your byline"dazed and confused" the two linked
      if it was you, im really sorry


      wasn't me. i have not been to ny in 44 years


      well thats a relief. but i think it was in virginia beach
      its all good

    • Baxter State Park administrators have been having trouble with entitled thru-hikers for at least forty years. I'm thinking back to when Warren Doyle and the UConn group weren't allowed to climb Katahdin - and crashed the gate to climb it anyway, ending up spending a night in jail. When was that, 1975?
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.

    • AnotherKevin wrote:

      Baxter State Park administrators have been having trouble with entitled thru-hikers for at least forty years. I'm thinking back to when Warren Doyle and the UConn group weren't allowed to climb Katahdin - and crashed the gate to climb it anyway, ending up spending a night in jail. When was that, 1975?


      Wow, wished we had asked him for more details about that when he was answering questions for us at the Cafe earlier this year.
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General

    • A.T.Lt wrote:

      It is crazy how different things are, I graduated HS, went to college and got , not a job, but a career at age 21.. by 26 I owned a house and had been working at the same place for 5 years. I have been working/employed in some sort of capacity since I was 12 years old. Im not saying that is the right way...I don't know what is the right way. Now at 42 years old i feel like I might have been doing it all wrong. I also feel like life has just begun. Im less concerned now about work, work, work and am more interested in making life work for me. Look at the brighter side of things and keep reminding myself that IT'S ALL GOOD!!


      If everyone was the way you've been for the last thirty years, there would be no long-distance hikers, entitled or otherwise.

      The section hike I did a couple of months ago was the first trip longer than a long weekend that I'd had in nearly forty years. I've had responsibilities. Taking a two-week hike meant actually taking a couple of weeks' vacation to hike, rather than spending the time to fix up the house, take care of the kid, visit distant family, study stuff I'm going to need to know for the next gig, ... stuff I have to do rather than stuff I want to do. It was weird to me. It left me feeling vaguely guilty, almost as if getting sick in the middle of it was a punishment for self-indulgence. The idea of walking away from your life and responsibilities for half a year really is something that I can hardly imagine.

      The way we both live is deeply ingrained in our culture. I'm not surprised to see thru-hikers displaying self-indulgent and even lawless behaviour. They've already had to break some pervasive cultural norms just to be out there! When you're already a rebel, it's hard to know when to stop! On the other hand, a successful thru-hike does, I imagine, involve a certain amount of self-discipline. When all is said and done, the thru-hiker does need to get up in the morning, shoulder a pack and make the miles, up and down the mountains in whatever weather Nature sends. A thru-hiker is doing something that everyone recognizes is difficult - for no better reason than wanting to do it.

      I try hard not to be the old man who says, "Why, when I was your age..." When I was their age, I wasn't very much different, except that I got burnt badly enough on petty rebellions that I never dared try a big one.

      With our society's expectation that "everyone has to carry his weight," I'm astonished that anyone manages to lighten the pack enough to embark on a thru-hike. If thru-hikers all turn out to be entitled snots, well, they needed some sense of entitlement even to start. I confess that I envy them sometimes. :)
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.

    • I worked all through college and still walked out with $18,000 in student loans. There was no time to run away and take a six month vacation.

      I still count myself lucky that I graduated in 2003. If I graduated from the same public university with the same major today, I would have been crushed with about $70,000 of student loan debt, and the average starting salary has barely budged during that same time.
      Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    • SarcasmTheElf wrote:

      I worked all through college and still walked out with $18,000 in student loans. There was no time to run away and take a six month vacation.

      I still count myself lucky that I graduated in 2003. If I graduated from the same public university with the same major today, I would have been crushed with about $70,000 of student loan debt, and the average starting salary has barely budged during that same time.


      Copy that...though I was fortunate not to accumulate student loan debt.

      Lest we forget.....


      SSgt Ray Rangel - USAF
      SrA Elizabeth Loncki - USAF
      PFC Adam Harris - USA
      MSgt Eden Pearl - USMC

    • AnotherKevin wrote:

      A.T.Lt wrote:

      It is crazy how different things are, I graduated HS, went to college and got , not a job, but a career at age 21.. by 26 I owned a house and had been working at the same place for 5 years. I have been working/employed in some sort of capacity since I was 12 years old. Im not saying that is the right way...I don't know what is the right way. Now at 42 years old i feel like I might have been doing it all wrong. I also feel like life has just begun. Im less concerned now about work, work, work and am more interested in making life work for me. Look at the brighter side of things and keep reminding myself that IT'S ALL GOOD!!


      If everyone was the way you've been for the last thirty years, there would be no long-distance hikers, entitled or otherwise.

      The section hike I did a couple of months ago was the first trip longer than a long weekend that I'd had in nearly forty years. I've had responsibilities. Taking a two-week hike meant actually taking a couple of weeks' vacation to hike, rather than spending the time to fix up the house, take care of the kid, visit distant family, study stuff I'm going to need to know for the next gig, ... stuff I have to do rather than stuff I want to do. It was weird to me. It left me feeling vaguely guilty, almost as if getting sick in the middle of it was a punishment for self-indulgence. The idea of walking away from your life and responsibilities for half a year really is something that I can hardly imagine.

      The way we both live is deeply ingrained in our culture. I'm not surprised to see thru-hikers displaying self-indulgent and even lawless behaviour. They've already had to break some pervasive cultural norms just to be out there! When you're already a rebel, it's hard to know when to stop! On the other hand, a successful thru-hike does, I imagine, involve a certain amount of self-discipline. When all is said and done, the thru-hiker does need to get up in the morning, shoulder a pack and make the miles, up and down the mountains in whatever weather Nature sends. A thru-hiker is doing something that everyone recognizes is difficult - for no better reason than wanting to do it.

      I try hard not to be the old man who says, "Why, when I was your age..." When I was their age, I wasn't very much different, except that I got burnt badly enough on petty rebellions that I never dared try a big one.

      With our society's expectation that "everyone has to carry his weight," I'm astonished that anyone manages to lighten the pack enough to embark on a thru-hike. If thru-hikers all turn out to be entitled snots, well, they needed some sense of entitlement even to start. I confess that I envy them sometimes. :)


      AK, there is nothing wrong with doing something for yourself. You've given your life to your family, your work, and your community...you deserve to go hiking once or twice a year. That may be "entitled" but you've earned that right. :)
      Lost in the right direction.

    • TrafficJam wrote:

      AK, there is nothing wrong with doing something for yourself. You've given your life to your family, your work, and your community...you deserve to go hiking once or twice a year. That may be "entitled" but you've earned that right. :)


      And here I thought boomers like me were all self-indulgent. :) At least that's what I always heard from the Greatest Generation, and then again from Generation X and the Millennials.

      I've already told my wife that I'm going back next year to grab the middle section of the trail that I leapfrogged over. So I guess I've managed to talk myself into another week's hiking vacation, at least. :/

      And I have at least a day trip coming up on Sunday - climbing Blackhead (3960') in the Catskills if the Guy that owns the place allows. I invited my daughter, but she doesn't want to take on a tough peak like that until she has more snowshoe experience. Sensible woman.

      I do need to get out again - I'm starting to rant. Time to start running through the checklist and making sure I can find everything in the closet: pac boots, snowshoes, poles (gotta remember to change to snow baskets!) calf-length gaiters, winter sleeping bag (the party needs one, even for a day trip), microspikes, crampons, ice axe, helmet, goggles, facemask, tinderbox, firesteel, headlamp, PLB, shovel, my buddy is bringing the rope, I've had all the outdoor clothing out for a while because we got snow down here in the valley, too....
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.

    • YOU'VE PROBABLY READ ABOUT THE SALE, BUT BE SURE TO READ TO THE END...




      Happy Trails to you ... END OF AN ERA

      The young guns may not understand the meaning of this, but you should!!



      THE END OF AN ERA.......

      The Roy Rogers Museum in Branson , MO has closed its doors forever.



      The contents of the museum were sold at a public auction.



      Roy Rogers told his son, if the museum ever operates at a loss,
      Close it And sell the contents. He complied.

      Note the follow-on article truly the end of an era.



      Here is a partial listing of some of the items that were sold at auction...



      Roy 's 1964 Bonneville sold for $254,500, it was estimated to
      Sell between 100 and 150 thousand dollars.


      His script book from the January 14,1953 episode of This Is Your Life

      Sold for $10,000 (EST. $800-$1,000).



      A collection of signed baseballs ( Pete Rose, Duke Snyder and
      Other greats) sold for $3,750.



      A collection of signed bats (Yogi Berra, Enos Slaughter,
      Bob Feller, and others) sold for $2,750.



      Trigger's saddle and bridle sold for $386,500 (EST. 100-150 K).



      One of many of Roy 's shirts sold for $16,250 and one of his many
      Cowboy hats sold for $17,500.

      One set of boot spurs sold for $10,625.
      (He never used a set of spurs on Trigger).



      A life size shooting gallery sold for $27,500.



      Various chandeliers sold from $6,875 to $20,000.



      Very unique and artistic in their western style.



      Roy 's first Boots
      A signed photograph by Don Larsen taken during his
      Perfect game in the world series against The Dodgers
      On Oct. 8, 1953, along with a signed baseball to Roy from Don,
      Sold for $2,500.



      Two fabulous limited edition BB guns in their
      Original boxes with numerous photos of Roy, Dale,
      Gabby, and Pat sold for $3,750.



      A collection of memorabilia from his shows entertaining
      The troops in Vietnam sold for $938.
      I never knew he was there.



      His flight jacket sold for $7,500.

      His set of dinner ware plates and silverware sold for $11,875.



      The Bible they used at the dinner table every night sold for $8,750.



      One of several of his guitars sold for $27,500.



      Nellybelle sold for $116,500.

      A fabulous painting of Roy , Dale, Pat, Buttermilk, Trigger,
      And Bullet sold for $10,625.



      One of several sets of movie posters sold for $18,750.



      A black and white photograph of Gene Autry with a touching
      Inscription from Gene to Roy sold for $17,500.



      A Republic Productions Poster bearing many autographs of the
      People that played in Roy 's movies sold for $11,875.



      Dale 's horse, Buttermilk (whose history is very interesting) sold
      Below The presale estimate for $25,000. (EST. 30-40 K).



      Bullet sold for $35,000 (EST. 10-15 K). He was their real pet.



      Dale's parade saddle, estimated to sell between 20-30 K,
      Sold for $104,500.



      One of many pairs of Roy 's boots sold for $21,250.


      STARTING HERE TO GET THE MESSAGE...

      Trigger sold for $266,500.

      <ATT00008.jpg>

      Do you remember the 1938 movie The Adventures of Robinhood,
      With Errol Flynn and Olivia de Havilland?
      Well Olivia rode Trigger in that movie.

      Trigger was bred on a farm co-owned by Bing Crosby.
      Roy bought Trigger on a time payment plan for $2,500.



      Roy and Trigger made 188 movies together.



      Trigger even out did Bob Hope by winning an Oscar in the movie
      Son of Paleface in 1953.



      It is extremely sad to see this era lost forever. Despite the fact that
      Gene and Roy's movies, As well as those of other great characters,
      Can be bought or rented for viewing, today's kids would rather
      Spend their time playing video games.



      Today it takes a very special pair of parents to raise their kids with
      The right values and morals.



      These were the great heroes of our childhood, and they did teach
      Us right from wrong, and how to have and show respect for each
      other and the animals that share this earth.



      You and I were born at the right time.



      We were able to grow up with these great people even if we
      never met them.



      In their own way they taught us patriotism and honor,
      we learned that lying and cheating were bad, and sex wasn't as
      important as love.



      We learned how to suffer through disappointment and failure
      and work through it.



      Our lives were drug free.



      So it's good-bye to Roy and Dale, Gene and Hoppy,
      The Lone Ranger and Tonto.



      Farewell to Sky King and Superman and Sgt. Friday.



      Thanks to Capt. Kangaroo, Mr. Rogers and Capt. Noah
      and all those people whose lives touched ours,
      and made them better.






      It was a great ride through childhood.

      HAPPY TRAILS MY FRIENDS

      Don't send to anyone under 50... as they won't understand or care!
      Changes Daily→ ♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫ ♪♫♪♫♪♫ ← Don't blame me. It's That Lonesome Guitar.

    • max.patch wrote:

      milkman wrote:




      Farewell to Sky King and Superman and Sgt. Friday.





      i remember sky king (reruns -- i'm not "that" old). i liked penney. :)

      [IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Gloria_Winters_Penny_Sky_King_1952.JPG/220px-Gloria_Winters_Penny_Sky_King_1952.JPG]


      brought to you by Nabisco
      "you're darn tootin I like Fig Newtons"
      its all good

    • this story just came out on bsp facebook page:

      Baxter State Park about an hour ago

      After entering the Park without registering and camping for several nights at Roaring Brook and Chimney Pond without reservations, a group of two men from Ontario, Canada separated, with one man returning to a vehicle at Togue Pond and the ...other man heading up on Katahdin on Monday, December 8. The hiker had only a tent, light boots and minimal gear. Rangers became aware of the situation late in the day on Monday and started fires and lit propane lights in Katahdin-access roadside camps in case the hiker found his way out Monday night. On Tuesday, Rangers began actively searching for the hiker. The National Guard responded to our request with a Blackhawk helicopter equipped with Forward Looking Infrared sensors. The helicopter could only fly for 2 hrs due to the worsening weather in front of a significant rain and snow storm forecast for Tuesday afternoon and evening. Later on Tuesday morning, Rangers located the hiker who had left the Helon Taylor trail, traveled down the slope and through the forest to eventually reach the Roaring Brook Road after falling through ice and spending an uncomfortable night in the woods.
      The search, including helicopter and Ranger time, cost over $10,000.
      In accordance with Park Rule 2.2 ..."The Baxter State Park Authority may request reimbursement of search and rescue costs in cases of reckless hikers", we will be sending a letter to the rescued individual requesting reimbursement of costs.
      Events can conspire at times to mess up even the most prepared and thoughtful hikers, but reckless and illegal actions needlessly endanger hikers and rescuers alike. We thank the huge majority of our visitors who treat the wilderness with respect and incorporate planning and safe decision making into their wilderness journey.
      its all good