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Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

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    • Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

      Well I have been at this for several years and discussing solutions on several electronic sites... I have home brewed panels, tested products, and purchased several Goal Zero only to return it... I have burned up a cell phone in the process... As an Amateur Radio Operator and 4 years of schooling, I have come to this solution.

      1. The closer the solar cell is to the actual charger that comes with the phone the more compatible it will be...
      2. premium solar cells have collector lines that are smaller and closer together.
      3. many packages use unnecessary weight to protect the cells
      4. if the solar cell is at the same voltage it eliminates the need for a regulator.
      5. better price means eliminate the middle man.
      6. find a way to really charge in two hours of daylight instead of 6 or 8 as many small (over the counter) panels do.
      7. bypass proprietary resistance networks and charge the phone directly.


      That last one was a hurdle, I had to find out if anyone else was doing this .. and the answer is yes, there really is a lot of competition out there.

      So under my desk is many chargers for several phones, Black Berry, Motorola, LG and they all have one thing in common... 5 volts and 400 to 700MA (Milliamps) a measurement of flow of electrons... the more amps the bigger the flow into the battery.

      So we are looking to find a panel that has a USB connector at 5 volts 5watts or 1amp. to cut the charge time down, without overheating the battery. not enclosing the panel in a protective canvas. That is compatible with all phones... and Anker and Trent.

      Iphone and Motorola require an almost continous 5.3 volts at 800 to 1000ma in order to cut charge time. They both use a resistor network between the power and data wires to determine if they are connected to a computer or the propietary charger. This was done to avoid knock off China chargers which have caught fire. The China charger copies sent a few to hospital and 1 death. So a couple of resistors can be added and Charge can be full speed - Goal Zero missed this important part in their build. They can be modified softly.

      My google search looked something like this... 5v 5w 1000ma solar panel part

      Here is where my search led me.. $40 Blue Solar from Singapore.add shipping..... my only concern is there is no mention of a protection diode.... but that can be added.


      For the Iphone,Ipods and Ipad it would be two or three panels 5volt 2amp wired together... hence the cost would triple.

      Why did I return the Goal Zero? its a 12 volt device, its heavy, and has a built in regulator. The phone complained right in the driveway with every cloud.... As someone pointed out the battery pack that it came with was inefficient. So it did not suit my needs.

      No mention of Power film - the more I look at it the more I understand it doesn't have the juice and requires 2x the number of panels. Flexible panels are still a few generations away of being the right solution.
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:
    • Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

      by comparison you can see the difference!
      These panels are all physically the same size. Here is 5V 650mA Solar Panel
      [IMG:http://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/SZGD196156-10.jpg]
      5V 1000mA Solar Panel
      [IMG:http://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/SZGD238178.jpg]
      6V 845mA Solar Panel Resin Coated Polycrystalline 2x the $$$$
      [IMG:http://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/SZGD262166-12A.jpg]

      So light weight , thinner closer lines fiberglass and resin coat is the way to go. - Voltages closer to 5volts say 6 volts 1amp will do the trick...

      So practical they will produce power on a cloudy day or in partial foliage. When it rains - put it away.
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:
    • Re:Re: Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

      WiseOldOwl wrote:

      by comparison you can see the difference!
      These panels are all physically the same size. Here is 5V 650mA Solar Panel
      [IMG:http://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/SZGD196156-10.jpg]
      5V 1000mA Solar Panel
      [IMG:http://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/SZGD238178.jpg]
      6V 845mA Solar Panel Resin Coated Polycrystalline 2x the $$$$
      [IMG:http://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/SZGD262166-12A.jpg]

      So light weight , thinner closer lines fiberglass and resin coat is the way to go. - Voltages closer to 5volts say 6 volts 1amp will do the trick...

      So practical they will produce power on a cloudy day or in partial foliage. When it rains - put it away.
      you have my undivided attention because this is going to be my next business adventure. I had a lightweight Brunton foldable solar panel with the resin that did great I tested it several times. I sold it to a guy that has since bought two more.
    • Re:Re: Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

      CrazyLarry wrote:

      WiseOldOwl wrote:

      by comparison you can see the difference!
      These panels are all physically the same size. Here is 5V 650mA Solar Panel
      [IMG:http://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/SZGD196156-10.jpg]
      5V 1000mA Solar Panel
      [IMG:http://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/SZGD238178.jpg]
      6V 845mA Solar Panel Resin Coated Polycrystalline 2x the $$$$
      [IMG:http://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/SZGD262166-12A.jpg]

      So light weight , thinner closer lines fiberglass and resin coat is the way to go. - Voltages closer to 5volts say 6 volts 1amp will do the trick...

      So practical they will produce power on a cloudy day or in partial foliage. When it rains - put it away.
      you have my undivided attention because this is going to be my next business adventure. I had a lightweight Brunton foldable solar panel with the resin that did great I tested it several times. I sold it to a guy that has since bought two more.


      OK in what capacity? I am working on ideas for the trail backpacking on a stripped down version .
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:
    • Re:Re: Re:Re: Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

      WiseOldOwl wrote:

      CrazyLarry wrote:

      WiseOldOwl wrote:

      by comparison you can see the difference!
      These panels are all physically the same size. Here is 5V 650mA Solar Panel
      [IMG:http://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/SZGD196156-10.jpg]
      5V 1000mA Solar Panel
      [IMG:http://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/SZGD238178.jpg]
      6V 845mA Solar Panel Resin Coated Polycrystalline 2x the $$$$
      [IMG:http://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/SZGD262166-12A.jpg]

      So light weight , thinner closer lines fiberglass and resin coat is the way to go. - Voltages closer to 5volts say 6 volts 1amp will do the trick...

      So practical they will produce power on a cloudy day or in partial foliage. When it rains - put it away.
      you have my undivided attention because this is going to be my next business adventure. I had a lightweight Brunton foldable solar panel with the resin that did great I tested it several times. I sold it to a guy that has since bought two more.


      OK in what capacity? I am working on ideas for the trail backpacking on a stripped down version .
      I do not know but I will find out
    • Re:Re: Re:Re: Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

      Well here is the rub.. I have been working on this project for several years off and on, to solve my smart phone issues and charge them UL on the trail... I have I phones, Android, and Anker devices and look forward to solving several charging issues that require balance bridge resistive networks and provide a panel in the ounces range. instead of the pounds range... I am one month away from market.

      I am explaining this, not to shut you out... but the work I have put in solves and competes with the big boys in solar as they haven't solved the weight or rejection from different manufactures. In other words - you cannot hook up a Motorola ATT smart phone to a solar panel - but I just got it licked. yesterday. Almost a dancing banana moment. I have solved the tablet issues too. Just not ready for prime time..
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:
    • Re:Re: Re:Re: Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

      Somehow I missed the level of your involvement in this area. I have expressed pointed opinions about this technology. Had I understood your perspective, I likely would have phrased a few things differently.

      All I can say now is I wish you success in this. I can only imagine your excitement.

      Go, WOO Go. gif.005
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.
    • Re:Re: Re:Re: Re:Re: Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

      WiseOldOwl wrote:

      Well here is the rub.. I have been working on this project for several years off and on, to solve my smart phone issues and charge them UL on the trail... I have I phones, Android, and Anker devices and look forward to solving several charging issues that require balance bridge resistive networks and provide a panel in the ounces range. instead of the pounds range... I am one month away from market.

      I am explaining this, not to shut you out... but the work I have put in solves and competes with the big boys in solar as they haven't solved the weight or rejection from different manufactures. In other words - you cannot hook up a Motorola ATT smart phone to a solar panel - but I just got it licked. yesterday. Almost a dancing banana moment. I have solved the tablet issues too. Just not ready for prime time..
      I can sell it for ya!
    • Re:Re: Re:Re: Re:Re: Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

      CrazyLarry wrote:

      I can sell it for ya!


      I am sure you could - this is why Qiwiz and I get along... Ordering from Singapore takes 2 months strange because it via air... govt regs get in the way. Customs etc... USPS theft in transit. etc....


      let me ponder this -
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:
    • Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

      gypsy97 wrote:

      What I want to know is whether it will charge my Jitterbug phone if I decide to take it on the trail.


      you would be very surprised how ridiculously easy it is with the right panel. Non Smart phone do not have the same programmable properties or batteries that cause the issues... Quick question can you remove the battery on you Jitterbug?
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:
    • Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

      I don't have the slightest clue if I can remove the battery or not - never had any reason to. I dont see anything on the phone that looks like it opens up to a battery compartment, although I know there has to be one. I don't want to mess with it because I didn't buy the insurance on the phone so if I ruin it I'll have to buy a new one.

      Someone told me recently that I should take the phone when I'm backpacking because even if I can't get a signal, I can be located via the phone signal. Do you know if that's true? Before I do any backpacking I thought I'd call Customer Svc and verify it, and I might ask about removing the battery at the same time.
    • Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

      If the phone is on and cannot get a signal then no it cannot be located. The phone sends a occasional ping to tower to say here I am so calls can be routed to you. The information on the pinging is highly sought after in cold cases of child abduction when a phone is present. Without the towers present - just like in this missing jet liner the data ping is nothing more than a starting point. EMS do not have access to this information and only a handful of Amateur Radio hobbyists do direction finding in SHF range - so you cannot rely on that.

      Still take the Phone with you, Turn it off when you do not need it and let it take messages. you would be surprised what you can do from a bald or Hill top.
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:
    • Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

      Quick charging like this can be a tall order. Portable solar panels will fail to fully charge your devices in less than an hour, with some panels taking several hours to charge things. There are several reasons for this. The first objection is weather and tree leaves or cover. Older panels as early as 7 years ago could not overcome this objection. Then a famous Japanese Engineer discovered making the lines smaller and closer together and started a new corporation in Japan to build these latest panels. On a sunny day you can charge backwards to the sun. That’s right! reflected light-5 foot off of grass, still sends power to the battery! When do you put it away? When it starts to rain, the thickness of the clouds at that point absorb all the radiation and all panels do not generate anything. So on a cloudy day you will still get some power, That’s a day when you want use a backup battery or other item other than your smart phone. Today, on a cloudy day and still seeing the silhouette of the sun, I measured 4.25 volts at .06 amps in the field (Hiking) and the Anker was improving and showing a charge. A smart phone will block the charge at that time and possibly not accept it.
      .
      The second objection is Smart Phone diagnostics built into the phone… You could hook up 5 panels at the same time and it won’t reduce charging times. The best that can be achieved is a “little” faster. Example: The Motorola Smart Phone, and the Apple I phone come with 800ma and 1 Amp wall chargers respectively. I hooked up 1.5 amp wall chargers and the charging times are the same. I will remeasure the charge times so I have an accurate measurement. Solar marketing for the big name brands claim faster charge times. But it isn't true, the phones have limiters and battery temperature sensors. These manufactures have not addressed the resistor bridge problem that tells the phone that it is a charger and not a computer. Without it the Smart Phones charges at less than 500ma!

      I just installed a Photo meter app on my phone and purchased a in line volt/amp meter for diagnostics the next step is in field testing with two panels in parallel.
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:
    • Re:Re: Understanding new Solar Power for the trail...

      Thanks Rasty...


      Still testing...

      My Amp Meter doesn't measure below .05 Amps, it needs that to power itself. And I am testing in less than Ideal conditions, below partly cloudy. The Anker displays "Charging" at this level and the V/A Meter is powered at .04 and .05 just fine - the working voltage is 4-5 volts. It's good for the Anker over the course of hours but don't expect to power a smart phone direct - they want 5.3v and a minimum of .6 amp constant over the course of three minutes. So when does that occur? When the sun is slightly visible as a disk, in the clouds. So adding panels will get you there, and charging on a lunch break would be optimum. The question is how long of a lunch break?
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup: