Musings & Tinkerings of a BirdBrained Gram Weenie

BirdBrain wrote:

AnotherKevin wrote:

He's back!



Hey, I've missed you! How's it going Up North Down East?

Careful AK. Your wicked good understanding of regional expressions might confuse those from away (aka flatlanders). Perhaps I have said too much.

Buried. Wicked busy.

hikerboy wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

AnotherKevin wrote:

He's back!



Hey, I've missed you! How's it going Up North Down East?

Careful AK. Your wicked good understanding of regional expressions might confuse those from away (aka flatlanders). Perhaps I have said too much.

Buried. Wicked busy.

dont worry bb. he cant get theya from heah

socks wrote:

Rasty, how do I turn my love light out?

BirdBrain wrote:

socks wrote:

Nice job BB it looks great. Did you build a jig to make those compound angles? I can see the loading, it looks great, very clever.

RS, you are everything that is right about this type of site. When I get a few minutes, I will give your question the answer it deserves.

BirdBrain wrote:

After pondering this for a bit, I decided the math would be too complex. There were too many variables. I would have to calculate the height of sectors for bends angles that were unknown. I decided instead to make a template out of stainless wire. Next I tried a few bend angles using aluminum to come up with a usable angle. Once I had a bend I liked (133°) , I trimmed a few and laid them on the template. This gave me the center of the legs. Next via trial and error I calculated the takeout of the bend. Aluminum springs back quite a bit after bending and work hardens rapidly. Ideally it should be bent slowly and deliberately to an angle that will result in the desired finished angle after tension is released. After trial and error, I settled on a bend of 180°. When tension was released, the resulting angle was very close to the desired 133°.

BirdBrain wrote:

socks wrote:

BirdBrain wrote:

socks wrote:

Nice job BB it looks great. Did you build a jig to make those compound angles? I can see the loading, it looks great, very clever.

RS, you are everything that is right about this type of site. When I get a few minutes, I will give your question the answer it deserves.

I'm sure i'll be poppin' in every so often, just can't help myself...but i got some things I gotta git after, like my big ol' fat gut, need to start walkin hard again, i'm gettin' soft. I'll just be in the back for a while lurkin.

...lurkin' ain't shirkin'

The snow is coming down and I am recovering from a late night. Enjoying the haters whining. Taking the day off from projects. Therefore, I will answer your question now.

The short answer is I use a 1/4" tubing bender and calculate takeouts and offsets. Given your background, I will give you the long answer too.

Last year when I made a couple of versions using 1/16" stainless steel, the process was much easier and much cruder. It was just a matter of calculating height and circumference. You divide the circumference by 6, use that answer and with the height employ a theorem by Pythagoras to get the length of the legs and the angles of the bends.

Stainless can be bent at sharp angles and forced into a circle without much worry of the effects of work hardening. Aluminum is not as forgiving. When I decided to try aluminum, I realized I would have to form it with no sharp bends and no lateral stresses. This meant when all bends were made, the 2 loose ends would have to meet. This would require much more thought and complex math.

After pondering this for a bit, I decided the math would be too complex. There were too many variables. I would have to calculate the height of sectors for bends angles that were unknown. I decided instead to make a template out of stainless wire. Next I tried a few bend angles using aluminum to come up with a usable angle. Once I had a bend I liked (133°) , I trimmed a few and laid them on the template. This gave me the center of the legs. Next via trial and error I calculated the takeout of the bend. Aluminum springs back quite a bit after bending and work hardens rapidly. Ideally it should be bent slowly and deliberately to an angle that will result in the desired finished angle after tension is released. After trial and error, I settled on a bend of 180°. When tension was released, the resulting angle was very close to the desired 133°.

Now that I had a usable angle, it was just a matter of marking the takeouts and rotating the material to alternating 60° offsets. Given that aluminum springs back so much and that there is no table for takeouts for bending 3/32" aluminum on a 1/4" tubing bender, I had to find a way to mark a repeatable reference point for the start of each bend. By happenstance the center of each leg ended up being the takeout mark. This dimension ended up being 40mm from the 90° tangent of the bend to the center of the leg. This mark can be seen in a couple of places on the picture of the stand I uploaded. This mark was lined up with the face of the bender and after rotating 60° for offset (alternating right then left after each bend) the next bend was made. I would check each bend on a plastic bender's protractor after each bend, adjust as necessary, mark the next takeout, and make the next bend. After the last bend, I would trim the loose ends to the takeout marks. The final step was to join the 2 ends with thin wall 3/32" id copper tubing. Once the ends were joined, I would crush the copper in a vice. All angles were then rechecked.

It should be noted that this stand is designed for a 35mm high eCHS. The length of the legs and/or the angles of the bends would have to be changed to change the height and/or circumference of the stand.

I hope some of this helps and hopefully makes some sense.

BirdBrain wrote:

It gets worse. Did it to see if I could. Very sturdy, but not functional. The crossing wires make the stove hard to snuff.

socks wrote:

Rasty, how do I turn my love light out?

BirdBrain wrote:

Post number 4000. 4000 = 4 x 10 x 10 x 10. 4 is the number of my obsession. 10 is the number of all. When something is repeated 3 times, it is done for emphasis. None of this matters to normal people. I suspect there are a few abnormal people here that will appreciate the symmetry. I have hopes that a post of this importance will say something provocative or inspirational (depending on your mindset). So here we go....

The goal (in the context of this site) is the trail. As such, the secondary goal is to remove the obstacles to the primary goal. The "don't think, just do it" crowd will proclaim that there are no obstacles other than yourself. That denies reality and the purpose of most questions about hiking. The reality is there are many obstacles to spending any significant time hiking.

There are two things that enable a person to hike: Ability and knowledge. Physical ability can make up for many short comings of knowledge. Ability can help a person to succeed while doing stupid things. All can benefit from knowledge. Knowledge can be gained through experience or by example. That knowledge will not be proven until it is tested.

I try to take a logical approach to everything. The "just do it crowd" says that there is no fun in my way. I would rather go on every major ride multiple times in Disney World because I study traffic patterns and line queuing. I will let the others have their "fun" missing the rides. That scenario is based on an argument I had with a friend that took his family to Disney World a couple weeks after I took my family. We went on every major ride in every park at least 10 times. We went on the Tower of Terror 14 times because my kids loved it. We saw all the end of the day shows (some twice). And we were there only 5 days. My family allowed me to handle logistics. They had a blast. My friend basically called me a liar when we compared notes. He said it was not possible and that he had no plans of returning to Disney World because of the crowds. We barely noticed them the crowds. The crowds were always doing other things.

It is this way with all things. There is always the raging debate. The crowd that "just does it" will always at some point get mad or offended by the anal planners like me. This does not stem from people like me demanding it be done my way. There is no one way to do most things. When you run all the possible combinations of preferences there is an incalculable array of "right" ways to hike. The right way is based on what you like or prefer. The emotional response comes from not wanting to be told what to do... and in this case it means work or planning or study. Again, that is a choice. I choose to plan. I don't want to miss anything. I want to see that vista that most walk right by because they are unwilling to plan. I want to be filled, quenched, warm, dry, and comfortable. I see no reason to suffer from things that can be avoided through planning. The other side says it can't be done. So far I have not suffered to any unreasonable degree in being hungry, thirsty, cold, wet, or uncomfortable. My body has ailments that I can do little about. I do all I can on the rest.

This rant is becoming more provocative than inspirational. I will get to the point. If you think I am obsessed with a gram, you miss the point. I am obsessed with the event. I want it to be as enjoyable as possible. Only a stubborn person would say that carrying 50lbs is more enjoyable than carrying 30lbs. It is their choice. It is none of my business. They are not evil for their choice. But neither am I for mine....

BirdBrain wrote:

Post number 4000. 4000 = 4 x 10 x 10 x 10. 4 is the number of my obsession. 10 is the number of all. When something is repeated 3 times, it is done for emphasis. None of this matters to normal people. I suspect there are a few abnormal people here that will appreciate the symmetry. I have hopes that a post of this importance will say something provocative or inspirational (depending on your mindset). So here we go....

The goal (in the context of this site) is the trail. As such, the secondary goal is to remove the obstacles to the primary goal. The "don't think, just do it" crowd will proclaim that there are no obstacles other than yourself. That denies reality and the purpose of most questions about hiking. The reality is there are many obstacles to spending any significant time hiking.

There are two things that enable a person to hike: Ability and knowledge. Physical ability can make up for many short comings of knowledge. Ability can help a person to succeed while doing stupid things. All can benefit from knowledge. Knowledge can be gained through experience or by example. That knowledge will not be proven until it is tested.

I try to take a logical approach to everything. The "just do it crowd" says that there is no fun in my way. I would rather go on every major ride multiple times in Disney World because I study traffic patterns and line queuing. I will let the others have their "fun" missing the rides. That scenario is based on an argument I had with a friend that took his family to Disney World a couple weeks after I took my family. We went on every major ride in every park at least 10 times. We went on the Tower of Terror 14 times because my kids loved it. We saw all the end of the day shows (some twice). And we were there only 5 days. My family allowed me to handle logistics. They had a blast. My friend basically called me a liar when we compared notes. He said it was not possible and that he had no plans of returning to Disney World because of the crowds. We barely noticed them the crowds. The crowds were always doing other things.

It is this way with all things. There is always the raging debate. The crowd that "just does it" will always at some point get mad or offended by the anal planners like me. This does not stem from people like me demanding it be done my way. There is no one way to do most things. When you run all the possible combinations of preferences there is an incalculable array of "right" ways to hike. The right way is based on what you like or prefer. The emotional response comes from not wanting to be told what to do... and in this case it means work or planning or study. Again, that is a choice. I choose to plan. I don't want to miss anything. I want to see that vista that most walk right by because they are unwilling to plan. I want to be filled, quenched, warm, dry, and comfortable. I see no reason to suffer from things that can be avoided through planning. The other side says it can't be done. So far I have not suffered to any unreasonable degree in being hungry, thirsty, cold, wet, or uncomfortable. My body has ailments that I can do little about. I do all I can on the rest.

This rant is becoming more provocative than inspirational. I will get to the point. If you think I am obsessed with a gram, you miss the point. I am obsessed with the event. I want it to be as enjoyable as possible. Only a stubborn person would say that carrying 50lbs is more enjoyable than carrying 30lbs. It is their choice. It is none of my business. They are not evil for their choice. But neither am I for mine....

BirdBrain wrote:

Post number 4000. 4000 = 4 x 10 x 10 x 10. 4 is the number of my obsession. 10 is the number of all. When something is repeated 3 times, it is done for emphasis. None of this matters to normal people. I suspect there are a few abnormal people here that will appreciate the symmetry. I have hopes that a post of this importance will say something provocative or inspirational (depending on your mindset). So here we go....