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The AT has been ruined and I'm not the only one who says this

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    • The AT has been ruined and I'm not the only one who says this

      WARNING THIS TOPIC CONTAINS A VERY HARSH TRUTH PEOPLE WILL NOT LIKE OR WILL WANT TO ARGUE AGAINST, WHICH PROVES THE POINT TO THIS POST
      I'm not here to argue or debate with people, this post outlines a major problem with 2000 milers that more and more people are getting sick and tired of seeing. So this topic isn't from one person it's fom thousands and thosands of people.

      This is something I've been making videos about recently and I've been polite about it for the most part but this last video someone posted made me and a ton of other real hikers blood boil People getting mad at me or disliking this isn't my concern because it's not going to change the facts. This needs to be said because it's out of control

      First I will say outright that using hostels and hotels ARE NOT a problem and there is ALSO NOTHING WRONG WITH going to them. Want to go to them be my guest..I also want to be very clear that I am also not the only one who has a problem with the following situation, there are thousands of people who are so sick and tired of this, that they are trying to find ways to put a stop to this crap.

      This problem only applies to the 2000 milers not the section/day hikers:
      A once hard challenging trail which only few people could do, has now been turned into a weak, easy going walk any idiot can do.

      There are tons of people who do nothing but hostel/hotel hop to get through all 2,198.4 miles of the trail, and then claim they have done some great accomplishment and what's worse, there are all sorts of trolls who keep praising them and feeding into their delusion.

      Sorry to break it to you people doing that, but hiking is more than just the walk. But all most people do now is go out for a day then getting off trail and going home into a cozy place whenever any type of hardship occurs, which isn't hiking, it's cheesing your way through and taking the easy way out to get through something you obviously cannot handle, and is absolutely disgusting how anyone can try to argue it's somehow still accomplishing something major.

      What people who hostel/hotel hop are doing is the equivalent of getting to the top of mount Washington in a vehicle while stopping every 2 miles to get out to takes some pictures, then once you reach the top, claim you climbed to the top. You haven't done anything, you've been given a very relaxed and easy way to go through something you obviously wouldn't have ever been able to do.
      These people and their must have safety nets are ruining the trail.

      You are on the AT to be in the wilderness and roughing it not to be heading indoors and running to luxury.

      There is a reason why only a select few were able to hike all 2+ miles back in the 80's and 90's and even early to mid 2000's, it's because the trail wasn't set up to accommodate and coddle all lazy people who have to run indoors and be handed every safety net in order to be able to get through something that actually requires real work.

      If you want to do the whole trail as an actual hiker then do the trail without this and quit being coddled because this crap is out of control. Anyone who argues against this is just proving they cannot handle the trail.

      Face it, if all the hostels and shelters were only there for resupply, the people you see doing this, wouldn't dare step foot on the trail because they know they would actually have to earn going through.

      Get rid of all hostels and shelters along the trial or at least spread them out 500 miles each, or only allow them for the purpose of resupply, and forbid anyone to go to town and stay in a hotel or some cozy place and watch what happens. Anyone sneaking into town from the trail should be banned.

      People doing the 2000 miler, need to be forced to actually do it as real hiking no more of this coddling safety net crap

      That's my rant

      The post was edited 8 times, last by Matt_C ().

    • Frankly, hostels are part of the experience. My time at Kincora with Bob Peoples is still a great memory, listening to he and Seiko trade stories. And the AT was never originally intended for 2000 milers until Earl Shaefer decided it was a good idea.
      The AT is a narrow corridor , and is far from a wilderness, never more than a few miles away from a road crossing and civilization. It's also the most heavily used trail in the east, attracting millions of visitors a year. Thru hikers number a few thousand at best.
      So how does what others do have anything to do with the "integrity" of your own hike?
      If you want a true wilderness experience, try the Idaho Centennial Trail.
      its all good

    • 3 things

      1. The original use for the hostels and shelters were for the forest rangers and the like so they could respond to things quicker.

      2. Don't try and make this about me. You read the issue and everyone that has any form of common sense knows what I explained is a problem. With all due respect, anyone that doesn't get mad at yellowblazers, really don't have any business involving themselves in this type of conversation. So again, please don't try and make this about me.

      3. I realized I needed to add something so I was editing the post at the time you replied so you didn't see what I added about hiker passes. Please go back and read that and adjust your reply accordingly.

      The post was edited 5 times, last by Matt_C ().

    • Matt, I have trouble understanding why what other people do on their hike makes you so angry.
      You still have the option of making your own hike as hard as you want.
      Nobody should be forcing other people 'to actually do it as real hiking.' Yikes! Think about what you are saying.

      If these 'soft' thru-hikers bother you this much, perhaps you should find a different trail.
      There are so many options.
      “Of all sad words of tongue or pen,
      the saddest are these, 'It might have been.”

      John Greenleaf Whittier

    • Matt_C wrote:

      3 things

      1. The original use for the hostels and shelters were for the forest rangers and the like so they could respond to things quicker.

      2. Don't try and make this about me. You read the issue and everyone that has any form of common sense knows what I explained is a problem. With all due respect, anyone that doesn't get mad at yellowblazers, really don't have any business involving themselves in this type of conversation. So again, please don't try and make this about me.

      3. I realized I needed to add something so I was editing the post at the time you replied so you didn't see what I added about hiker passes. Please go back and read that and adjust your reply accordingly.
      But it is about you and your own attitude.You're making your own rules . Let's see how well you stick to them yourself.
      its all good

    • I got news for everyone reading this,

      When it comes to hiking, being at the end doesn't matter, how you got to the end actually does

      So let's cut the BS already

      I can say with all certainty, that if the trail was set up exactly how I said to do it above, (with the passes and stuff), forcing you cheating snowflakes to do it the real way, 99% of you wouldn't last 1 month on the trail.

      I would put money on that.

      The bottom line here is people on the AT to do the 2000 miler are there to be in the wilderness, not to be running back to civilization every night

      Furthermore If all the safety nets were removed preventing people from hopping 99% of the people doing it wouldn't be able to handle the trail and you all know it

      So let's not pretend what I'm talking about isn't a legitimate complaint without merit.

      That's the point.

      The post was edited 5 times, last by Matt_C ().

    • hikerboy wrote:

      Get back to us after your hike in 2 years and let us know how that worked out for you. You're either trolling, or you have a great deal to learn about long distance hiking.
      None of you have hiked the trail either so how dare any of you come at me saying not to talk about something you yourselves haven't done? BTW quit trying to change the subject from cheaters and frauds, to I haven't hiked anything.

      Funny how when I said come out with me and lets see how long any of you really last because where I go there are no safety nets, you all ignore that. 99% of you wouldn't last a month if you hiked with me and you know it. So until you all can do the 2000 miler yourselves, and do it correctly, you all don't get to tell me not talking about this as if I don't know what I'm talking about.
      BTW when I do my hike of the AT I'll be giving updates to exactly what I'm doing and you will see.

      Got news for you all
      On a 2000 miler, hostel/hotel town hopping in order to cheese your way through, means you aren't doing a 2000 miler, and nor are you hiking you are doing nothing more than a partial walk with no actual hardship or endurance of real trail life. A 2000 miler requires you to avoid civilization as much as possible because you're on a damn wilderness trip, not a party from house to house trip. You can't have it both ways you're either hiking in the wilderness or you're not there is no partial walk with this.Half of you don't even bring the proper rain gear which is why your gear gets soaked so when you run into wet gear you can't handle it and run inside.

      How about all of you quit saying you climbed Mount Washington in a vehicle, then arguing because you were in a vehicle it still counts as being hiked.

      BTW I've had thousands and thousands of people all agree with me, and say I'm 100% correct. They also tell me cheaters will always defend cheating.

      The post was edited 6 times, last by Matt_C ().

    • Matt_C wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      Get back to us after your hike in 2 years and let us know how that worked out for you. You're either trolling, or you have a great deal to learn about long distance hiking.
      Gotta love the ignorance of the subject matter, once again no one is talking about distance hiking, this is about cheaters claiming yet they didn't do it
      You don't get to talk to me about something none of you have done yourselves so don't even come at me with that.
      I hope you are also enjoying your own ignorance. Because you're full of crap.-"they're doing all 1298.4 miles" I'll put my hiking resume up against yours anyday.
      In fact, I'd bet that every single member here has done more backpacking than you.

      But do go on. If nothing else, you're certainly entertaining.
      its all good

    • hikerboy wrote:

      Matt_C wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      Get back to us after your hike in 2 years and let us know how that worked out for you. You're either trolling, or you have a great deal to learn about long distance hiking.
      Gotta love the ignorance of the subject matter, once again no one is talking about distance hiking, this is about cheaters claiming yet they didn't do itYou don't get to talk to me about something none of you have done yourselves so don't even come at me with that.
      I hope you are also enjoying your own ignorance. Because you're full of crap.-"they're doing all 1298.4 miles" I'll put my hiking resume up against yours anyday. In fact, I'd bet that every single member here has done more backpacking than you.

      But do go on. If nothing else, you're certainly entertaining.
      Here we go again with the changing of the subject and replies that have nothing to do at all with the subject matter being discussed by adding in all sorts of with unrelated subject matter.
      The amount of BACKPACKING anyone has done individual or combined has nothing to do with anything because this is about cheaters getting to the end of the trail and then claiming credit for something they didn't do, with you people defending that.

      And just to be 100% clear about what saying is if people want to hostel/hotel hop great go do it no one cares but you're not going to do that and then claim you did an entire hike of the trail..That is where the game playing ends and people are sick of people pulling that.

      Saying people who hop the trail are doing all the miles, is the exact same thing as saying then so are yellowblazers. Taking shortcuts is taking shortcuts, skipping out on the trail is skipping out on the trail, you don't get to dictate one is a shortcut and the other isn't. You cannot have this both ways and that's what people are trying to argue for. you're tying to have your cake and eat it too. Sorry it doesn't work like that.

      You cannot argue that getting to the top of Mount Washington in a vehicle and getting to the top by hiking are the same thing, one is legit the other is not. Trail hopping is identical to taking a vehicle to the top of Mount Washington. You cannot use cheese tactics then claim legitimacy the end result has no value or validity when you had to cheat your way in order to get there. And yes trail hopping is cheating.

      Unless you endure the trail all the way through without hopping, then you haven't hiked the AT, unless you get to the top of mount Washington on foot all the way, then you haven't climbed Mount Washington.

    • Matt_C wrote:

      max.patch wrote:

      lol 1,298.4


      2000 miler
      FYI Despite the AT's mileage is really 2,198.4 minus the approach trail, the 2000 miler is the official name the AT conservancy calls it.What I find funny is people who claim to have all this knowledge don't even know the proper name for what I've been talking about!
      I have no patience for stupidity. It's been entertaining watching you dig yourself into a deeper hole. But you really need to keep proofreading and editing your posts into something that at least lends the appearance of someone who actually knows what they're talking about. You just stated 1298.4 miles.
      And you obviously haven't spent much time on the AT. You're clueless.
      its all good

    • hikerboy wrote:

      Matt_C wrote:

      max.patch wrote:

      lol 1,298.4


      2000 miler
      FYI Despite the AT's mileage is really 2,198.4 minus the approach trail, the 2000 miler is the official name the AT conservancy calls it.What I find funny is people who claim to have all this knowledge don't even know the proper name for what I've been talking about!
      I have no patience for stupidity. It's been entertaining watching you dig yourself into a deeper hole. But you really need to keep proofreading and editing your posts into something that at least lends the appearance of someone who actually knows what they're talking about. You just stated 1298.4 miles.And you obviously haven't spent much time on the AT. You're clueless.
      Better get your facts straight because I didn't state 1298.4 miles..YOU DID then someone quoted you which I quoted them, so nice try. Except for the one reply I quoted above from someone else who put 1298.4 which is a quote from you, that number doesn't exist in any reply on here from me, so how can you possible say I posted something I never did and just to kill anything you can say about me editing, me editing it cannot change the original quote from the reply which means it would have the entire reply just not what i edited and no post on here by me has anything related to what you claimed so get your facts straight

      I also never once deviated from talking about the 2000 miler so even if I somehow happened to do a typo it's clear to what I'm talking about and I've never once talked about anything else. So you're lying about what you just said. I've been talking about people cheating the AT, and everyone else has continued saying unrelated subject matter which I corrected which you're now trying to use to say I changed the subject.

      So here you are again trying to change the subject and discredit me by purposely posting things you know I'm going to correct you on, thus creating a different subject you're trying to use to change the subject. Just6 like me having to correct you about the false mileage you said I did you continue posting false statements knowing I'm going to correct them because you're trying to cause such a cluster screw to change the original subject

      As you can see this topic was about people cheating the AT and you and others turned it into what's happening now. Exactly as I said you're doing.

      Also until you do the 2000 miler yourself, then stop coming at me with I haven't spent time on the AT, this isn't about spending time on the AT, this is ab out cheaters getting to the end and claiming credit for something they didn't do.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Matt_C ().

    • The ATC definition of a 2000 miler is someone who has hiked the ENTIRE trail -- passing all the white blazes. Period.

      They don't give a fat rats azz if someone spends every night in a tent or every night in a hostel. They don't care if you start in Georgia and hike continously to Maine in 5-6 months or if you take a section at a time and do it over 20 years. You can backpack every single day or day hike every single day and never spend a night on the trail. They don't care if only go in one direction or if you mix and max as you bounce around.

      My personal definition of a 2,000 miler thru hiker is much more strict than the ATC -- but it's MY definition for ME. I don't care what anyone else does.

      I'm not going to debate the AT with someone who hasn't done it. Come back when you have the experience to back up your mouth.

      Personally I'm much more concerned with our ignorance of global warming and why 1/3 of the country supports someone who attempted to overthrow the government for President than if someone spent the night in a hostel or in their tent.
      2,000 miler

    • max.patch wrote:

      POINT 1.

      The ATC definition of a 2000 miler is someone who has hiked the ENTIRE trail -- passing all the white blazes. Period.

      They don't give a fat rats azz if someone spends every night in a tent or every night in a hostel. They don't care if you start in Georgia and hike continously to Maine in 5-6 months or if you take a section at a time and do it over 20 years. You can backpack every single day or day hike every single day and never spend a night on the trail. They don't care if only go in one direction or if you mix and max as you bounce around.


      POINT 2.

      I'm not going to debate the AT with someone who hasn't done it. Come back when you have the experience to back up your mouth.
      POINT 1:
      That's incorrect! You're combining the definition of thru-hike with the rules of a 2000 miler.
      The definition of a thru-hike is anyone that completes the trail in 12 months or less flip flop,section which I mentioned briefly in the topic, day, one of the qualifying rules to be recognized as a 2000 miler is to pass all the white blazes I already stated that in the topic so what's your point on bringing that up again

      As far as point number 2 goes you don't even know what you're talking about.
      POINT 2:
      Not only do you not even know the definition of 2000 miler is, you literally said it doesn't matter if you take 20 years which is false it has to be done in 12 months or less. Furthermore and you also haven't hiked the AT yourself and you're telling me not to talk about that you kidding me!

      BTW The AT's definition of Thru-hike has no bearing on anything. You're dealing with the HIKING community itself and their definition is what matters and they have a serious problem with people who hostel hop. Being at the end doesn't matter when you cheated your way to get there. People who hop around will always say it's not cheating and make excuse after excuse. Cheaters always make excuses for other cheaters and themselves.

      As I said before you cannot argue that just because you are at the top of Mount Washington that how you got there doesn't matter. Cheaters will always argue how you got there doesn't matter as long as your there then you did it. Even liars understand what I just said and agree that how you get there matters.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Matt_C ().

    • Matt_C wrote:

      max.patch wrote:

      POINT 1.

      The ATC definition of a 2000 miler is someone who has hiked the ENTIRE trail -- passing all the white blazes. Period.

      They don't give a fat rats azz if someone spends every night in a tent or every night in a hostel. They don't care if you start in Georgia and hike continously to Maine in 5-6 months or if you take a section at a time and do it over 20 years. You can backpack every single day or day hike every single day and never spend a night on the trail. They don't care if only go in one direction or if you mix and max as you bounce around.


      POINT 2.

      I'm not going to debate the AT with someone who hasn't done it. Come back when you have the experience to back up your mouth.
      POINT 1:That's incorrect! You're combining the definition of thru-hike with the rules of a 2000 miler.
      The definition of a thru-hike is anyone that completes the trail in 12 months or less flip flop,section which I mentioned briefly in the topic, day, one of the qualifying rules to be recognized as a 2000 miler is to pass all the white blazes I already stated that in the topic so what's your point on bringing that up again

      As far as point number 2 goes you don't even know what you're talking about.
      POINT 2:
      Not only do you not even know the definition of 2000 miler is, you literally said it doesn't matter if you take 20 years which is false it has to be done in 12 months or less. Furthermore and you also haven't hiked the AT yourself and you're telling me not to talk about that you kidding me!

      BTW The AT's definition of Thru-hike has no bearing on anything. You're dealing with the HIKING community itself and their definition is what matters and they have a serious problem with people who hostel hop. Being at the end doesn't matter when you cheated your way to get there. People who hop around will always say it's not cheating and make excuse after excuse. Cheaters always make excuses for other cheaters and themselves.

      As I said before you cannot argue that just because you are at the top of Mount Washington that how you got there doesn't matter. Cheaters will always argue how you got there doesn't matter as long as your there then you did it. Even liars understand what I just said and agree that how you get there matters.
      You are so full of crap it's not funny. you keep on editing and deleting your posts because you can't even get your story straight. A 2000 miler, as Max Patch said, can take 20 years to do it. One of my friends did it in 54 days-no hostels, no zeros. According the ATC, both qualify as 2000 milers.And there is no special recognition for "thru hikers" They are 2000 milers the same as a 30 year section hiker who completes the trail. How you choose to hike it is entirely up to you. ALDHA recognizes hikes the same way. You're in over your head here. Maybe seek out Warren Doyle if you want to reallly get schooled.. Now go back under your bridge and plan for 2025. You're going to need it.
      its all good

    • Going back to the name of the thread, if "The AT has been ruined", if anyone feels that way they are entitled to their opinion I guess, but there are a whole lot of other trails out there.
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General

    • Matt C.,
      Since you say you don't don't want to argue, how about you take a break from this thread for a bit. Cool things down. No need to come in hot. We all look for different things from the trail. This is a quiet corner of the Internet.

      I would hate to ban you, but angry arguing does grow tiresome, and if someone has to go, it's gonna be the new guy.

      Tell me about your experience. What trails have you hiked? What is the longest you have hiked without the
      comforts of a bed or resupply?

      Is there anything you enjoy in your hikes besides the physical deprivation? Personally I am out there for the wildlife, the fauna, the views and the inner peace it gives me.
      “Of all sad words of tongue or pen,
      the saddest are these, 'It might have been.”

      John Greenleaf Whittier

    • Screw it. Now that I am aware that the AT has been ruined, I'm gonna quit my 20-year cheating snowflake section hike.

      I also have no patience for stupidity. But it can be entertaining.
      Trudgin' along the AT since 2003. Completed Sections: Springer Mountain to Clingmans Dome and Max Patch NC to Gorham NH

      "The days I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations...those are pretty good days." Ray Wylie Hubbard

    • Matt_C wrote:

      WARNING THIS TOPIC CONTAINS A VERY HARSH TRUTH PEOPLE WILL NOT LIKE OR WILL WANT TO ARGUE AGAINST, WHICH PROVES THE POINT TO THIS POST
      I'm not here to argue or debate with people, this post outlines a major problem with 2000 milers that more and more people are getting sick and tired of. The information in this topic is from thousands and thousands of people who once again are really fed up with this situation.

      This is something I've been making videos about recently and I've been polite about it for the most part but this last video someone posted made me and a ton of other real hikers blood boil People getting mad at me or disliking this isn't my concern because it's not going to change the facts. This needs to be said because it's out of control

      First I will say outright that using hostels and hotels ARE NOT a problem and there is ALSO NOTHING WRONG WITH going to them. Want to go to them be my guest..I also want to be very clear that I am also not the only one who has a problem with the following situation, there are thousands of people who are so sick and tired of this, and are trying to find ways to put a stop to this crap.

      This problem only applies to the 2000 milers not the section/day hikers:
      A once hard challenging trail which only few people could do, has now been turned into a weak, easy going walk any idiot can do.
      _____________________________________________________________________________________
      There are tons of people who do nothing but hostel/hotel hop to get through all 2,198.4 miles of the trail, and then claim they have done some great accomplishment and what's worse, there are all sorts of trolls who keep praising them and feeding into their delusion. As far as I'm concerned these hostel/hotel hopping trolls, are worse than yellowblazers. (Yes I just said that)

      Sorry to break it to all you lazy people, hostel/hotel hopping to get through the 2000+ miles of the trail but hiking is more than just the walk. Going out for a day, then getting off trail and going home into a cozy place whenever any type of hardship occurs, isn't hiking, it's cheesing your way through, taking the easy way out to get through something you obviously cannot handle, and it's taking away from real hikers doing the 2000+ milers legitimately. The way you coddle your way through then brag about it is absolutely disgusting. (I'm not sure whose worse, you trolls pulling this crap, or the people praising you) You are on the AT to be in the wilderness and roughing it, not to be heading indoors and running to luxury.

      For the uninformed or the people who don't seem to understand what the actual issue is, here is a basic analogy describing the situation:
      What people who hostel/hotel hop are doing is the equivalent of getting to the top of Mount Washington in a vehicle while stopping every 2 miles to get out to takes some pictures, then once they reach the top, claim they climbed to the top.

      Just like the Mount Washington analogy, those people haven't actually done anything and they sure as hell haven't had it difficult on the trail. They've been given an extremely relaxed and very easy way to go through something they obviously wouldn't have ever been able to do otherwise.

      There is a reason why only a select few were able to hike all 2000+ miles back in the 80's and 90's and even early to mid 2000's, it's because the trail wasn't set up to accommodate and coddle all lazy people who have to run indoors and be handed every safety net in order to be able to get through something that actually requires real work.

      If you want to do the whole trail as an actual hiker then do the trail without this and quit being coddled because this crap is out of control. Anyone who argues against this is just proving they cannot handle the trail. Face it, if all the hostels and shelters were only there for resupply, the people you see doing this, wouldn't dare step foot on the trail because they know they would actually have to earn going through.

      Here is how to reset the trail back to the original way it is supposed to be done and get rid of all these free loaders:
      First of all if people want to keep hostels then fine, but every hiker is registered and given a pass with a registration number that MUST BE PRESENTED at ALL HOSTELS you wish to enter no pass means no entry no exceptions and it's 1 pass per person, a pass cannot be sued to accommodate anyone but yourself, this means if it's a group of 4 people, all 4 people require passes none of this passes allowing for guests.

      The pass for thru-hikers would only allow for a total of 1 indoor hostel visit per month per hostel regardless of how many hostels are in a state The smoky's are the only place this would not apply. The pass would be required to be presented and if not already, punched before entry. Resupply doesn't affect the pass in any way. The pass is explicitly for entry which means 1 stay per person which includes laundry, a bed, food..etc...

      Next is to Redefine the term thru-hike as someone doing all 2198.4 miles of the trail in under 12 months WITHOUT getting off the trail and only people registered as a thru-hiker can claim recognition
      1. All hostels all are for the purpose of resupply except when a pass is used.
      2. Anyone going to town to a hotel or some cozy place is banned from the trail You are a saying you're a thru-hiker and thus being in the wilderness, you are not a tourist so act like a hiker.
      Unless you're forced off the trail by someone in authority due to weather that would actually kill you, or you have to in a state park like the Smoky's, anyone registered as doing 2000 miler sneaking/going into town from the trail should be banned.

      People doing the 2000 miler, need to be forced to actually do it as real hiking, no more of this coddling safety net crap allowed every night, and no more of this disguising a 2000 miler as a day/section hike with every comfort of home. These lazy-ass people and their must have safety nets, are ruining the trail and shouldn't be allowed on it, or at the least have people along the trail stopping them from doing what they're doing.

      That's a rant from a large community that I belong to as an individual.
      it's just walkin' bruh. nobody gives 2 sh**s about yours or mine opinions

    • Has Matt_C offered his authoritative 'facts' on TOS? Might have to head over there to see. Also need to look for the referenced videos to see the "ton of other real hikers blood boil."

      Think about the effort he is putting into this crusade. Or windmill tilting.

      • Registers and posts in the Introduce Yourself thread as a prospective 2025 AT thru-hiker.
      • Posts his Manifesto and edits it eight times. Eight times! Theodore Kaczynski only edited his manifesto three times. Just sayin'...
      • In the first line after the WARNING, he states that he's not here to argue or debate with people. Then he spent the better part of Sunday arguing and debating with people. A well-written manifesto should stand on its own and be immune to any criticism.
      • Created a thru-hiker hostel pass proposal. Except for the Smokey's (sic) because they are a state park. You know... the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. The park with all the hostels and hotels.


      I could go on but it's time to get back to work. I need to work so I can afford my hostel stays. :D
      Trudgin' along the AT since 2003. Completed Sections: Springer Mountain to Clingmans Dome and Max Patch NC to Gorham NH

      "The days I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations...those are pretty good days." Ray Wylie Hubbard

    • StalkingTortoise wrote:

      Has Matt_C offered his authoritative 'facts' on TOS? Might have to head over there to see. Also need to look for the referenced videos to see the "ton of other real hikers blood boil."

      Think about the effort he is putting into this crusade. Or windmill tilting.

      • Registers and posts in the Introduce Yourself thread as a prospective 2025 AT thru-hiker.
      • Posts his Manifesto and edits it eight times. Eight times! Theodore Kaczynski only edited his manifesto three times. Just sayin'...
      • In the first line after the WARNING, he states that he's not here to argue or debate with people. Then he spent the better part of Sunday arguing and debating with people. A well-written manifesto should stand on its own and be immune to any criticism.
      • Created a thru-hiker hostel pass proposal. Except for the Smokey's (sic) because they are a state park. You know... the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. The park with all the hostels and hotels.


      I could go on but it's time to get back to work. I need to work so I can afford my hostel stays. :D
      Almost all of his posts ere edited more than once.And he deleted another post showing the wrong mileage(and then lied about it).
      its all good

    • Astro wrote:

      Going back to the name of the thread, if "The AT has been ruined", if anyone feels that way they are entitled to their opinion I guess, but there are a whole lot of other trails out there.
      The problem is, it seems that only one person here is entitled to their opinion.

      ("TRUTH PEOPLE WILL .... WANT TO ARGUE AGAINST, WHICH PROVES THE POINT)

      To say that all contrary opinions just prove an argument to be correct is such a radical logical fallacy, I don't think rhetoritians even have a name for it yet. I'll ask my former Dead Fred. He's a rhetoritian. Until then we could call it the Quid Stultus Fallacy. Cof124

    • Radical Logical Fallacy - RLF. I'm adding that acronym to my 'pack'. Doesn't weigh anything but could come in handy.

      WTF...RLF!
      Trudgin' along the AT since 2003. Completed Sections: Springer Mountain to Clingmans Dome and Max Patch NC to Gorham NH

      "The days I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations...those are pretty good days." Ray Wylie Hubbard

    • odd man out wrote:

      Astro wrote:

      Going back to the name of the thread, if "The AT has been ruined", if anyone feels that way they are entitled to their opinion I guess, but there are a whole lot of other trails out there.
      The problem is, it seems that only one person here is entitled to their opinion.
      ("TRUTH PEOPLE WILL .... WANT TO ARGUE AGAINST, WHICH PROVES THE POINT)

      To say that all contrary opinions just prove an argument to be correct is such a radical logical fallacy, I don't think rhetoritians even have a name for it yet. I'll ask my former Dead Fred. He's a rhetoritian. Until then we could call it the Quid Stultus Fallacy. Cof124
      Years ago, my philosophy and logic professor quipped that the informal name for that fallacy is "argumentum ad bulls***."
      Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    • I reverted the original post just for shits and giggles.

      Matt_C wrote:

      WARNING THIS TOPIC CONTAINS A VERY HARSH TRUTH PEOPLE WILL NOT LIKE OR WILL WANT TO ARGUE AGAINST, WHICH PROVES THE POINT TO THIS POST
      I'm not here to argue or debate with people, this post outlines a major problem with 2000 milers that more and more people are getting sick and tired of seeing. So this topic isn't from one person it's fom thousands and thosands of people.

      This is something I've been making videos about recently and I've been polite about it for the most part but this last video someone posted made me and a ton of other real hikers blood boil People getting mad at me or disliking this isn't my concern because it's not going to change the facts. This needs to be said because it's out of control

      First I will say outright that using hostels and hotels ARE NOT a problem and there is ALSO NOTHING WRONG WITH going to them. Want to go to them be my guest..I also want to be very clear that I am also not the only one who has a problem with the following situation, there are thousands of people who are so sick and tired of this, that they are trying to find ways to put a stop to this crap.

      This problem only applies to the 2000 milers not the section/day hikers:
      A once hard challenging trail which only few people could do, has now been turned into a weak, easy going walk any idiot can do.

      There are tons of people who do nothing but hostel/hotel hop to get through all 2,198.4 miles of the trail, and then claim they have done some great accomplishment and what's worse, there are all sorts of trolls who keep praising them and feeding into their delusion.

      Sorry to break it to you people doing that, but hiking is more than just the walk. But all most people do now is go out for a day then getting off trail and going home into a cozy place whenever any type of hardship occurs, which isn't hiking, it's cheesing your way through and taking the easy way out to get through something you obviously cannot handle, and is absolutely disgusting how anyone can try to argue it's somehow still accomplishing something major.

      What people who hostel/hotel hop are doing is the equivalent of getting to the top of mount Washington in a vehicle while stopping every 2 miles to get out to takes some pictures, then once you reach the top, claim you climbed to the top. You haven't done anything, you've been given a very relaxed and easy way to go through something you obviously wouldn't have ever been able to do.
      These people and their must have safety nets are ruining the trail.

      You are on the AT to be in the wilderness and roughing it not to be heading indoors and running to luxury.

      There is a reason why only a select few were able to hike all 2+ miles back in the 80's and 90's and even early to mid 2000's, it's because the trail wasn't set up to accommodate and coddle all lazy people who have to run indoors and be handed every safety net in order to be able to get through something that actually requires real work.

      If you want to do the whole trail as an actual hiker then do the trail without this and quit being coddled because this crap is out of control. Anyone who argues against this is just proving they cannot handle the trail.

      Face it, if all the hostels and shelters were only there for resupply, the people you see doing this, wouldn't dare step foot on the trail because they know they would actually have to earn going through.

      Get rid of all hostels and shelters along the trial or at least spread them out 500 miles each, or only allow them for the purpose of resupply, and forbid anyone to go to town and stay in a hotel or some cozy place and watch what happens. Anyone sneaking into town from the trail should be banned.

      People doing the 2000 miler, need to be forced to actually do it as real hiking no more of this coddling safety net crap

      That's my rant
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123

    • I'm thinking it was a weekend meth binge and Matt_C has been in withdrawal since Sunday.

      Wonder if Matt-C is planning on using modern gear for his 2025 thru attempt. Lightweight internal-frame packs, trail runner and waterproof gear ruin the AT for me. Anyone that doesn't wear 4 pound Limmers is just cheesing their way through. In my humble opinion. Which cannot be refuted.
      Trudgin' along the AT since 2003. Completed Sections: Springer Mountain to Clingmans Dome and Max Patch NC to Gorham NH

      "The days I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations...those are pretty good days." Ray Wylie Hubbard

    • I'd like Matt-C to post links to these videos he references. I'd like to see the links to where the "thousands agree with me". I'd like to see links to back up all his assertions.
      I was going to Reply with Quote and interject on all the facts he lists, asking for references. I decided I'd spent enough time reading it the first few times.
      Pirating – Corporate Takeover without the paperwork

    • rhjanes wrote:

      I'd like Matt-C to post links to these videos he references. I'd like to see the links to where the "thousands agree with me". I'd like to see links to back up all his assertions.
      I was going to Reply with Quote and interject on all the facts he lists, asking for references. I decided I'd spent enough time reading it the first few times.
      Cite references in an on line discussion? I thought I was the only one who did that.

      Just yesterday someone on another hiking group asked for recipes that were low in cholesterol (among other things like catbs and gluren). I asked why cholesterol, as research now shows that dietary cholesterol is not associated with heart disease as once thought. Some else went into a tizzy, saying I was all wrong and cholesterol was evil. So I posted links to three long review articles written by researchers at the Cleveland Clinic, Harvard, and the NIH. She said these were just studies funded by the egg industry and countered with a YouTube video by some doctor. I gave up.