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Apex vs Down?

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    • Apex vs Down?

      I currently have a 40 deg hydrophobic down quilt for summer use. I need to upgrade to a three-season sleep system. I am considering a 20 deg Enlightened Equipment quilt which come in down and Apex. I am attracted to the Apex due to its low cost and performance in damp conditions. I understand the up sides of down (compressibility, weight, eg), so no need to comment on that. I specifically wonder if the temperature ratings of the two are comparable. Is it reasonable to expect that the EE 20 deg Apex quilt is as warm as the 20 deg down quilt?
    • I also was hoping someone would have first hand experience with Apex. I've always been a down guy but I'm sure the synthetics must have improved over the years.
      “Of all sad words of tongue or pen,
      the saddest are these, 'It might have been.”


      John Greenleaf Whittier
    • I don’t know the answer but EE has 20% off right now on in-stock items…10% off for custom bags.

      An Apex Rev quilt layered with a down bag makes a lot of sense to me. The synth over the down supposedly transfers moisture away from the down bag. I’m seriously considering a 40* apex to beef up my 30* WM down bag (when it isn’t quite cold enough for my 0*).
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Traffic Jam wrote:

      I don’t know the answer but EE has 20% off right now on in-stock items…10% off for custom bags.

      An Apex Rev quilt layered with a down bag makes a lot of sense to me. The synth over the down supposedly transfers moisture away from the down bag. I’m seriously considering a 40* apex to beef up my 30* WM down bag (when it isn’t quite cold enough for my 0*).
      Someone on TOS also suggested layering two quilts. I saw the sale, which prompted the question. Someone from EE posted that the APEX temp rating should be comparable to to down, but twice as bulky. Moisture is a concern of mine as I tend to side sleep in a slight fetal position and pull the quilt over my head. This is why mummy bags and narrow pads don't work for me as well as a quilt. I'm concerned about condensation and down in three-season conditions.
    • Traffic Jam wrote:

      You might be interested in this article about layering.

      support.enlightenedequipment.c…ilts-for-sub-zero-camping

      I don’t know if the temp rating chart for layering is accurate. My expectation of layering a 40* apex quilt with a 30” down bag is a comfort level of teens to 20’s.
      NIce article, thanks. It says two 40 deg quilts would be rated for 10 deg, which should be fine for me. I'm mostly thinking of 3 season type conditions, not winter. It also explained the moisture management strategy nicely.
    • Traffic Jam wrote:

      You might be interested in this article about layering.

      support.enlightenedequipment.c…ilts-for-sub-zero-camping

      I don’t know if the temp rating chart for layering is accurate. My expectation of layering a 40* apex quilt with a 30” down bag is a comfort level of teens to 20’s.

      Probably not a bad guesstimate.
      I've layered a 40 and a 20 down into the teens and been toasty, on an xlite pad. One that the insulation was kind of deteriorated and flaking off inside. I was just starting to feel the cold from beneath me but from above I was toasty.

      But when it starts to get very cold, daytime temps in the '20s and '30s, i typically have warmer clothing anyway. Heavier down jacket ( alpine light) and down pants (4.5 oz down custom) so those can just be layered with the 20° sleep system successfully as well. No need for the 40 quilt. Without the warmer clothing often can't even cook dinner without freezing once stop hiking.... So it's almost a necessity..... Might as well use it for sleeping too.
    • odd man out wrote:

      I currently have a 40 deg hydrophobic down quilt for summer use. I need to upgrade to a three-season sleep system. I am considering a 20 deg Enlightened Equipment quilt which come in down and Apex. I am attracted to the Apex due to its low cost and performance in damp conditions. I understand the up sides of down (compressibility, weight, eg), so no need to comment on that. I specifically wonder if the temperature ratings of the two are comparable. Is it reasonable to expect that the EE 20 deg Apex quilt is as warm as the 20 deg down quilt?
      Check out the Cedar Ridge Outdoors quilts. I have a 10° in down and the 20° in the new synthetic which does compress nearly as well as down- well probably about 75% as well- anyway there ratings are comfort ratings not survivability ratings like EE. I've been happy with mine. cedarridgegear.com/store/UP-Synthetic-Topquilt-p279834573
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference
    • Muddywaters wrote:

      Traffic Jam wrote:

      You might be interested in this article about layering.

      support.enlightenedequipment.c…ilts-for-sub-zero-camping

      I don’t know if the temp rating chart for layering is accurate. My expectation of layering a 40* apex quilt with a 30” down bag is a comfort level of teens to 20’s.
      Probably not a bad guesstimate.
      I've layered a 40 and a 20 down into the teens and been toasty, on an xlite pad. One that the insulation was kind of deteriorated and flaking off inside. I was just starting to feel the cold from beneath me but from above I was toasty.

      But when it starts to get very cold, daytime temps in the '20s and '30s, i typically have warmer clothing anyway. Heavier down jacket ( alpine light) and down pants (4.5 oz down custom) so those can just be layered with the 20° sleep system successfully as well. No need for the 40 quilt. Without the warmer clothing often can't even cook dinner without freezing once stop hiking.... So it's almost a necessity..... Might as well use it for sleeping too.
      yeah, when it gets very cold, I’ll have my 5* bag (with overfill). It’s been overkill so far which is why I’ve been considering the quilt + down bag…plus I can use the quilt in summer.

      I wonder how bulky two bags will be. My pack is already maxed out when it’s cold with the extra clothes and gear.
      Lost in the right direction.
    • I also wondered how bulky two quilts would be. But also considered the weight.
      I figure my 40 deg down quilt (long wide) is about 18 oz
      Adding a 40 deg Apex quilt on top of that would add 20 oz = 38 oz total
      Getting a 20 deg Apex quilt instead would be 34 oz.
      So there is only a 4 oz penalty if going with Apex.
      But going with a 20 deg down quilt would be substantially less (bulk and weight).
      Of course the cost is also quite different.
    • So I have two quilt sets, 20 degree and zero degree, both are down.
      I see no need for a 40 degree quilt.

      I have taken to almost always bringing the zero degree set, not because I necessarily need it, but because it is so 'comfy' and the added weight does not mean that much to me.
      To tell the truth, I find the zero degree set toasty to only about 20 degrees, and then below that temperature I am definitely adding my puffy, wool beanie and thermals into the mix.
      Like OMO, I will often pull my quilt over my head when it is cold. The frost forms. Probably not good for the down long term, but I basically live with it. I shake off what I can in the morning and the quilt seems to be dry enough for use the next night after a day in my pack.

      Car camping is where I use my big, heavy, Coleman synthetic sleeping bags. Usually I unzip them as blankets for me and my wife, one or two below, one or two on top for comfort. There is plenty of room in my giant Coleman Clown tent. :)
      “Of all sad words of tongue or pen,
      the saddest are these, 'It might have been.”


      John Greenleaf Whittier
    • Muddywaters wrote:

      .need larger pack for cold conditions and more gear often.
      Plan to order a new ULA Circuit today, but I still have my old Catalyst in my closet for times like that. Can get winter gear and up to 5 days of food in Circuit, but go to the bigger pack if out for longer.
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General
    • I've still got a catalyst for my winter pack, but I've been eyeballing a 62
      L arc blast. My 50 L is limited to a max of about 3 days food if I want to get the top closed with gear for 10-20F. Of course I like everything to be inside the pack, mesh pocket.

      I suppose I could just strap on some kind of little Cuben sack on the outside until a day or two of food is gone if I had to.

      Would be a whole lot cheaper. All the extra down don't weigh but another pound or such.... It's not a weight issue

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Muddywaters ().

    • I pulled the trigger and bought the Apex rev 40*.

      I should have saved the $ for a new tent but after two glasses of wine, my fingers started clicking buttons. :)

      One of my questions about layering is what size to use for the outer layer. I don’t want to feel trapped or entombed so bought a regular wide quilt. But now I feel stupid because (I think) a quilt has a high degree of adjustability.

      Oh well…it’ll be a learning experience.
      Lost in the right direction.
    • odd man out wrote:

      Time Zone wrote:

      Traffic Jam wrote:

      I should have saved the $ for a new tent but after two glasses of wine, my fingers started clicking buttons. :)
      That sounds like a good technique for overcoming "paralysis by analysis" in purchasing decisions! :D
      in exchange for terminal GAS (gear acquisition syndrome).
      So drinking 2 glasses of wine helps me find the balance between spending and saving, cool! :thumbsup:
      Lost in the right direction.