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You can't teach and old dog....

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    • You can't teach and old dog....

      I find it remarkable how backpacking gear traditions can be so entrenched. I am not sure if it is the retailers who are influencing the buyers or the other way around. I suppose it is both, like ants endlessly following each other around the rim of a cup, feeding an endless loop of misinformation. For example:

      The retailers will tell you that you need a large pack for a long hike and a small pack for a short hike, when experience tells me exactly the opposite is true. People out for a camping weekend are likely to take a giant pack filled with all the comforts of home, but long distance trekkers are minimalists. For example, see this screen shot from REI (touted as one of the best outfitters) when I search pack and filter by trip length, you get 30 70+L packs as an options. However in the last survey by The Trek of AT thru hikers and LASHers, they found 97% carried packs smaller than this.
      thetrek.co/appalachian-trail/t…-trail-thru-hiker-survey/


      As for shoes, it is common "knowledge" that you must have waterproof boots to keep your feet dry and ankles from being broken. Indeed when I select for backpacking footwear at REI, I get a selection of waterproof boots (and one pair of slippers, I presume for camp shoes). Yet in The Trek's survey, 90% of thrus and LASHers used shoes. As for the waterproof thing, Andrew Skurka's blog calls them a "complete failure" based on backpacking about a bazillion miles through Alaska.
      andrewskurka.com/waterproof-go…-chance-complete-failure/
      thetrek.co/appalachian-trail/t…l-2019-thru-hiker-survey/


      Of course there is nothing wrong with these gear choices (HYOH, yada yada). But my experience is that most people think that the good folks at REI actually know what they are talking about, believe them, and repeat it over and over as the gospel truth on countless social media posts.

    • The REI associate that helped me pick my current pack was knowledgeable and steered me to a smaller pack than I originally picked out. So it's really luck of the draw. My daughter also got an experienced REI associate when she was pack shopping and got one that is sized well for multi-day high mile trips.

      It's not really a problem. If you want to know exactly what gear is the best, you just need to visit TOS and ask The Collective to share their wisdom. :D
      Trudgin' along the AT since 2003. Completed Sections: Springer Mountain to Clingmans Dome and Max Patch NC to Gorham NH

      "The days I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations...those are pretty good days." Ray Wylie Hubbard

    • LOL on the above comment. Except for any "what is best" question, we all know there will be 100 people offering 90 different opinions. Most of which are incorrect because they are not mine!

      I've not been in a REI in a few years. Buy most everything from UL vendors and online. It always struck me when I went in and some boy scout was in getting fitted for his "Philmont" pack. They looked like Everest climbers without the down suit. Kid weighs 160 pounds and has 55 pounds of gear.
      Pirating – Corporate Takeover without the paperwork

    • rhjanes wrote:


      I've not been in a REI in a few years. Buy most everything from UL vendors and online. It always struck me when I went in and some boy scout was in getting fitted for his "Philmont" pack. They looked like Everest climbers without the down suit. Kid weighs 160 pounds and has 55 pounds of gear.
      Probably somewhat unfortunate but usually a combination of not having the finances to buy the smallest lightest of everything and (even more so) that if those in charge let those Scouts go without carrying everything they could possibly ever need some parent will get them in trouble should something happen due to not having something they needed (rather than understanding that sometimes things occur accidentally and that the extra weight may actually cause a problem as well).

    • BillyGr wrote:

      rhjanes wrote:

      I've not been in a REI in a few years. Buy most everything from UL vendors and online. It always struck me when I went in and some boy scout was in getting fitted for his "Philmont" pack. They looked like Everest climbers without the down suit. Kid weighs 160 pounds and has 55 pounds of gear.
      Probably somewhat unfortunate but usually a combination of not having the finances to buy the smallest lightest of everything and (even more so) that if those in charge let those Scouts go without carrying everything they could possibly ever need some parent will get them in trouble should something happen due to not having something they needed (rather than understanding that sometimes things occur accidentally and that the extra weight may actually cause a problem as well).
      I'd say the Boy Scout Motto "Be Prepared" reflects a culture that supports this way of thinking. That has now morphed into the nugget of advice I've seen a 1000 times on various discussion fora: "Better to have it and not need it than to need it an not have it." I hate that.

    • I only took a few camping trips as a scout. I wasn't in scouts long because as a military brat, well we'd up and move. BUT, those few trips were tough due to pack size and weight! I am around some scouts and they go on hikes when camping and they call it a day at around mile 8 to 12. they are worn out due to the weight they carry do "Be prepared". But it does teach them self reliance, being in nature, how to use all their gear.
      Pirating – Corporate Takeover without the paperwork

    • odd man out wrote:

      I was a scout for a long time but don't recall doing much backpacking. We usually camped at places they could drive to with the trailer full of gear.
      I've seen those when we are down doing Orienteering events at some big Texas scout ranches. We were doing set up work on a Friday and staying in a bunkhouse at a huge camp. Around 8 PM on Friday night the trucks, Suburbans all start rolling in with trailers and scouts. But then on say Saturday, some of the scouts were over in a very remote part of the camp doing "Back woods/Philmont" training. They'd been driven over with their expedition packs and camped in a remote site. Saturday morning they took down camp, packed up the backpacks and start hiking along the scout trails. It's 8 miles and they took all day for the loop and flopped on the ground back at the original camp site and then told to "set up camp again". Some looked like they were having fun but some of the young men looked pretty miserable.
      Pirating – Corporate Takeover without the paperwork

    • rhjanes wrote:

      I only took a few camping trips as a scout. I wasn't in scouts long because as a military brat, well we'd up and move. BUT, those few trips were tough due to pack size and weight! I am around some scouts and they go on hikes when camping and they call it a day at around mile 8 to 12. they are worn out due to the weight they carry do "Be prepared". But it does teach them self reliance, being in nature, how to use all their gear.

      odd man out wrote:

      I was a scout for a long time but don't recall doing much backpacking. We usually camped at places they could drive to with the trailer full of gear.
      Like so many things, most of that depends on those in charge of each Troop. While there are basic sets of rules, much of the program is set up based on the youth themselves, and what the adults in charge are willing/able to do.

      If you have a few people who are more adventurous, you get a Troop with more of the backpacking and hiking (and things like rock climbing, boating, biking etc.) - if not you get the Troops that prefer to do mostly the car camping.

      Both settings are valid ways to learn about things and are good in at least getting the kids out doing something - but a good reason to recommend that anyone who tries Scouting should look around - don't assume you don't like it just from one experience or seeing one Troop. You might have to travel a bit but likely you will find a group that fits your ideas.