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Sleeping Bag

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    • jimmyjam wrote:

      I've tried the foam pad on top and under my inflatable, and for me it's definitely warmer and feels better with the foam pad on top. However sometimes I bring the foam along in the summer and I'll put it under the inflatable because it will keep it from sliding around.
      It has something to do with warm air getting trapped in the cells of the CCF pad or something like that. And the warmth gets lost to the ground at a slower rate with the CCF in the middle.

      But it sounds like one of those things that people have to try for themselves. Some people, like Mr. Llhikers, like the CCF on bottom for protection against puncture.
      In life there are no limitations. Except stupidity. If you're stupid, you're screwed.

      Stephan Pastis
    • Traffic Jam wrote:

      SandyofPA wrote:

      I have the Western Mountaineering Antelope, as a side sleeper the width allows me to pull my knees up to stay real warm. I pair it with an X-Therm.
      Good point, I sleep the same...on my side with knees up. I worried the extra space would make me feel colder.
      Sandy, for what temp range do you use the Antelope? I’d like to use it up to 30’s, at least.
      The Antelope comes out to play below 25 degrees. My homemade quilts are used above that. I have not tested the Antelope down to its 5 degree rating, but it is very warm to 10.
    • odd man out wrote:

      SandyofPA wrote:

      I have the Western Mountaineering Antelope, as a side sleeper the width allows me to pull my knees up to stay real warm. I pair it with an X-Therm.
      Following as I may also be in the market for a cold weather bag someday. I also like to sleep a fetal position. That's what I like about my quilt I use for warm weather conditions. But a lot of people don't recommend quilts for cold weather sleeping.
      I use quilts for winter hammocking, and that works out fine. No doubt different when you are on the ground. If I camped in subzero conditions, then I think I would want a tent or at least a hammock sock for the extra protection and warmth.

      Traffic Jam wrote:

      Holy crap, I just paid $600 for a sleeping bag. It better last the rest of my life. :)

      I got the 5* Antelope with overfill. If it’s good enough for Sandy...
      Keep it a safe distance from that winter campfire, trust me, I know....
      “Of all sad words of tongue or pen,
      the saddest are these, 'It might have been.”


      John Greenleaf Whittier
    • LIhikers wrote:

      Has anyone warned TJ about the morning problem you get from being in a warm, comfortable sleeping bag when it's freeeeeeezing outside?
      I have a hard time making myself climb out into the cold to get the day started--- brrrrrrrrrr
      One year 'Mr. Coffee' came the MLK weekend. The smell of fresh roast made it a bit easier to get our of the bag.
      “Of all sad words of tongue or pen,
      the saddest are these, 'It might have been.”


      John Greenleaf Whittier
    • IMScotty wrote:

      LIhikers wrote:

      Has anyone warned TJ about the morning problem you get from being in a warm, comfortable sleeping bag when it's freeeeeeezing outside?
      I have a hard time making myself climb out into the cold to get the day started--- brrrrrrrrrr
      One year 'Mr. Coffee' came the MLK weekend. The smell of fresh roast made it a bit easier to get our of the bag.
      That was the night Surebridge Shelter roof was leaking.....on me!!!! And we heard that baby Coyote in the morning!
      Cheesecake> Ramen :thumbsup:
    • Now remember that year.
      Kathy and I hiked in during the night, in pouring rain, arriving at camp about 1AM.
      When we woke up everybody was packed up and heading out.
      I guess all the coffee was gone because I don't remember any real coffee.
      What really impressed me was them carrying Coyote as well as all their camping gear
    • The bag arrived yesterday, I was so excited to get home from work to find it waiting for me. It is awesome, the quality is fantastic, the loft is incredible. Seriously, it’s perfect, not too roomy, not too snug...just right. I can cinch the hood so only my nose and mouth are exposed and it doesn’t feel claustrophobic.

      My only worry is that it will be too warm. I soooo want to try it out but have two more days of work in this stretch. I’m hoping for Wednesday, temps will be down to 31*, although it’s probably not cold enough.
      Images
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      In life there are no limitations. Except stupidity. If you're stupid, you're screwed.

      Stephan Pastis
    • This bag is like sleeping on a cloud, I love it! I tried it out last night on my deck in 28* with snow flurries and stayed toasty warm. The test was only for an hour and it was so comfy, I nearly fell asleep. If I ever get a day off, I’ll set up the tent and try it all night.

      Y’all have no idea how happy this makes me.
      Images
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      In life there are no limitations. Except stupidity. If you're stupid, you're screwed.

      Stephan Pastis
    • Traffic Jam wrote:

      This bag is like sleeping on a cloud, I love it! I tried it out last night on my deck in 28* with snow flurries and stayed toasty warm. The test was only for an hour and it was so comfy, I nearly fell asleep. If I ever get a day off, I’ll set up the tent and try it all night.

      Y’all have no idea how happy this makes me.
      I'm glad to hear that it worked out well and that you are happy with your choice.
      Next time around try it when the temperature is in the teens. Gradually work down to the bags rating and see if it's true for you.
    • CoachLou wrote:

      I had some communication with him after that hike. They were planning on a thru with Coyote. Then she got Lyme, then they were expecting a second pup! He does post at ToS anymore and I don’t go on his antique Mercedes site........ haven’t heard from or of him in a while
      They must have been sucked into the dark vortex of parenting :) It should spit them back out in another 20 years.
      “Of all sad words of tongue or pen,
      the saddest are these, 'It might have been.”


      John Greenleaf Whittier
    • IMScotty wrote:

      CoachLou wrote:

      I had some communication with him after that hike. They were planning on a thru with Coyote. Then she got Lyme, then they were expecting a second pup! He does post at ToS anymore and I don’t go on his antique Mercedes site........ haven’t heard from or of him in a while
      They must have been sucked into the dark vortex of parenting :) It should spit them back out in another 20 years.
      Almost through with my fourth and final one! Senior year with biggest decision of him choosing which college he is going to play baseball at.
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General
    • I'm thinking about getting myself a new quilt as a late Christmas present to myself. As I've gotten older I seem to tolerate the cold less. My old style EE Revelation hasn't always kept me warm enough unless I sleep in a bunch of clothes and I don't like doing that because it's just not that comfortable. The down shifts around a fair amount in my quilt with the old style baffles and I even had Time to add several ounces of down. It should be about a 15 degree quilt.
      Thinking of ordering a 10 degree with the downtek. Any thoughts?
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference
    • There’s pros and cons of downtek vs down and I chose untreated down because the shell is Microlite XP...whatever that is. :)

      (It sounded good on paper.)

      (My bag is awesome! I’ve taken it out on the deck several times and can’t wait to try it out soon on the FHT. )

      Anyway, I don’t trust ratings and would read a lot of reviews to make sure it’s indeed adequate to 10* before deciding.
      In life there are no limitations. Except stupidity. If you're stupid, you're screwed.

      Stephan Pastis
    • Traffic Jam wrote:

      There’s pros and cons of downtek vs down and I chose untreated down because the shell is Microlite XP...whatever that is. :)

      (It sounded good on paper.)

      (My bag is awesome! I’ve taken it out on the deck several times and can’t wait to try it out soon on the FHT. )

      Anyway, I don’t trust ratings and would read a lot of reviews to make sure it’s indeed adequate to 10* before deciding.
      What are the cons of downtek?
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference
    • There is a lot of debate about treated vs non-treated down. I can’t spout statistics and such. But after reading (a lot), there are several reasons I chose untreated down,

      I believe that a bag with treated down will not last as long as a down bag, nor does it retain its loft over a period of time.

      My Big Agnes bag is downtek with 650 FP, has been in use for 4(?) years and seems to have lost a good bit of loft. I’ll take some measurements when I get home. I read that treated down is stiffer and should not be tested or rated the same as untreated. They aren’t comparable...an untreated 800fp bag is not the same as an 800fp treated bag.

      I also believe that warmth to weight ratio and compressibility is better in untreated down. Compare the products carefully. Time Zone is a numbers guy and has charts comparing different bags. If you’re interested, he might share (Sorry to throw you under the bus TZ).

      Regarding moisture... treated down traps moisture and that is what I believe lessens the life span and reduces the loft of the treated bag. Non-treated down allows the moisture to pass through to the outer shell. People own their down bags for many years making it a better investment.

      You might argue that the wet conditions in our area will affect a down bag but I have never had trouble keeping my sleeping bags dry, even in downpours, so I don’t subscribe to the ‘What if” worst case scenario I’m going to die thinking. If I am submerged in water, the bag will be soaked, whether it’s treated or not (and I will have much more to worry about.)

      So...for me, the outer shell is the most important part of choosing the bag. Western Mountaineering uses several different shells for different “series” of bags. I researched each of those and chose the one that seems to fit my hiking conditions the most. I am convinced it will perform great.

      Again, these are simply my conclusions to a whole lot of reading.
      In life there are no limitations. Except stupidity. If you're stupid, you're screwed.

      Stephan Pastis
    • One more thought...>(only one). :)

      Not all down is equal. Be very careful if purchasing an inexpensive, untreated, down bag. It is likely to be inferior Down from China that does not perform the same as quality down.

      In fact, as TZ discovered, some very legitimate businesses are falsely advertising their sleeping bags (whether synthetic or down) then shipping bags that have very different measurements and ratings. Again, sorry for throwing you under the bus TZ.
      In life there are no limitations. Except stupidity. If you're stupid, you're screwed.

      Stephan Pastis
    • Yes, I run a lot of numbers on gear before buying (and after). I think it's worth doing, but it's not the end-all and be-all. It can sort of guide you, but in the end, you need to see how things measure up in real life (literal measurements or performance).

      Lately I've returned a couple mail-order/ship-to-home items to some big-name outdoor retailers which were advertised with different specs - not only different than they were in real life, but different than on the very label attached to the items themselves! IDK if this is so much fraud as plain laziness and carelessness, as model specs or suppliers/manufacturers may change over time. One item was a sleeping pad, which was 15% heavier and with a 15% lower R-value than it was advertised with. In simple terms that's a 30% adverse hit, spec-wise. I've also often returned sleeping pads that were shorter/narrower than advertised. A nominal 72" pad that is only 68" long is a big difference if you're a 6 footer, or close to it! I have seen so many such examples, I get kind of a thrilling surprise when an item is the same weight and size as advertised (or very close).

      For down vs. untreated down, I mostly rely on expert opinion, and the fact that FF and WM don't use treated down speaks volumes to me. There are a few experts in materials and heat transfer physics out there too, and it's worth looking at their analyses (to the extent one can understand them). I admit being skeptical of the gee-whiz marketing demonstration of down plumes in a water-filled vial. It forms a powerful impression, but it's not actually what any of us really face when we go camping or backpacking. We assume we can extrapolate from it, but I'm not at all sure that it is at all informative with respect to the item's performance in normal use. It would be better to measure loft and weight before and after a night in the woods. Consider these in light of what is known/believed about how inches of loft and moisture content affect insulating value.

      One thing I've looked at lately w/r/t bags is volume of loft. Take the fill power and multiply by ounces of fill, to get a rough idea of the volume of loft under ideal (arguably unrealistic) conditions. Of course you should be careful about mixing up the results between regular, short, and long bags. if you want to get fancy you should also account for loss of loft due to real-world humidity effects (which does affect treated down eventually, too). There are some experimental figures out there that I've used to estimate this ... results do seem to imply higher FP down takes a bigger hit, though all fill powers are affected to some extent. Anyway, you do all that and you should have some idea of real world insulating volume.

      Through this exercise, I have noticed that some bags are lightly insulated (at best) on the backside, probably more in an effort to win the spec war than to cater to back-only sleepers. But if you are a back-only sleeper, you have a great advantage in the UL race. It seems to me that you would get 90% of the weight/bulk advantages of a quilt with less of the fiddle factor and fewer cold drafts if you move around a lot. These bags are cut so trim, it would be hard to roll within them without having them roll with you - so if you're a side or stomach sleeper, a thinly-insulated backside is not going to be pleasant. So these bags look like they're winning the spec war on weight and bulk; but the calculation of loft volume reveals they're probably inadequate for anyone but a still back sleeper.
    • hammockgear.com/economy-burrow/

      I bought a 20* treated down TQ and BQ from Hammock gear a few years ago and thought it did not pack as well as the regular down and discussed with HG owner. He said the treated down thing for him was a keeping up with the Jones' thing he had to do as a marketing thing but he was okay with the regular down. The pack issue seemed to go away after using it for a while...down treatment may have gone away as well. The treated down does have a slight odor. HG has some "budget" offerings that might interest you. I prefer the regular down my myself.
      I may grow old but I'll never grow up.
    • About five years ago II got a 40 deg quilt from UGQ with treated down. Recently when shopping for a three season quilt, I went back to their web site and see they no longer use treated down. They say it did not retain it's loft and tended to clump. Concerned my 40 deg quilt may suffer from this problem I sent them an e mail asking if it would be possible or advisable to have my quilt restuffed, and of so what the cost would be. They said that restuffing would not be recommended for a 40 deg quilt as the issues they observed with treated down we're more prevele in quilts with higher loft.
    • I did have an 850fp treated down bag very briefly - the down wasn't so much clumping in terms of lumps and empty spots, but it felt like a sheet of synthetic batting. That is, it did not flow loosely in the bag, could not be shaken around easily. I was unimpressed with the loft (seemed to not bounce back well from the compressed state in which it was shipped), and the length per the sewn-on label was 3" shorter than advertised online!

      It went back; the search continues, and it might only end with a big $$ outlay to WM or FF. Bigger than I want to make, but I recognize it may be inevitable.
    • Time Zone wrote:

      I did have an 850fp treated down bag very briefly - the down wasn't so much clumping in terms of lumps and empty spots, but it felt like a sheet of synthetic batting. That is, it did not flow loosely in the bag, could not be shaken around easily. I was unimpressed with the loft (seemed to not bounce back well from the compressed state in which it was shipped), and the length per the sewn-on label was 3" shorter than advertised online!

      It went back; the search continues, and it might only end with a big $$ outlay to WM or FF. Bigger than I want to make, but I recognize it may be inevitable.
      I own a 14 year old Mtn of down from WM, I have only zipped fully once. It was spendy, LI Hiker has a new one, cha Ching. I went and bought an Ever lite to use in the Huts and Summer( it is perfect), I am looking at a fall/spring bag, and have narrowed it down to another WM bag....... with not even one grain of angst about spending that kind of money............. I just have to squirrel it away by spring :rolleyes:
      Cheesecake> Ramen :thumbsup:

      The post was edited 1 time, last by CoachLou ().

    • jimmyjam wrote:

      It's boy! He's a long-wide 10° weighing in at a healthy 30 oz. :D
      10* at 30 oz sounds really good, so I assume the flexibility on the triple constraints on this case must have been with the $. ;)
      I am sure you will enjoy it. :thumbup:
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Astro: correct "some" to "so" ().

    • I slept outside the other night and tested my bag down to 16*. It is awesome! My face was still cold though. Someone once suggested a scarf and that is #1 on my things to try. I’m thinking a fleece scarf, not one that is hand knitted wool. A fleece balaclava is #2 on the list, only because I don’t want to spend $40 for one and not sure my sewing skills are good enough to make one.
      In life there are no limitations. Except stupidity. If you're stupid, you're screwed.

      Stephan Pastis