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    • max.patch wrote:

      i met a ski instructor at killington who did it the "wrong way".

      lived in vermont during the winter and in florida during the summer.

      as a skier and scuba diver that worked for him.
      My sister and I just cooked up a retirement plan a few weeks ago that should be the "right way". She spent a bunch of years in Maine along the coast and will be moving back there when she hits 65. My wife and I are soon looking for a lakefront lot in South Carolina.

      If all goes well, she will winter with us and we will summer with her. Win / win. And did I mention that she is a gourmet cook?

      Can't wait to move out of Pennsylvania. Damn legislature / governor have an insatiable need to spend more than they have, and then raise taxes to pay for it. Add in a very generous but underfunded state worker pension system that is bankrupting the school districts and my only hope is to be gone before it all explodes.
      Trudgin' along the AT since 2003. Completed Sections: Springer Mountain to Winding Stair Gap NC, and Sams Gap NC/TN (I-26) to Franconia Notch NH.
    • StalkingTortoise wrote:

      max.patch wrote:

      i met a ski instructor at killington who did it the "wrong way".

      lived in vermont during the winter and in florida during the summer.

      as a skier and scuba diver that worked for him.
      My sister and I just cooked up a retirement plan a few weeks ago that should be the "right way". She spent a bunch of years in Maine along the coast and will be moving back there when she hits 65. My wife and I are soon looking for a lakefront lot in South Carolina.
      If all goes well, she will winter with us and we will summer with her. Win / win. And did I mention that she is a gourmet cook?

      Can't wait to move out of Pennsylvania. Damn legislature / governor have an insatiable need to spend more than they have, and then raise taxes to pay for it. Add in a very generous but underfunded state worker pension system that is bankrupting the school districts and my only hope is to be gone before it all explodes.
      Seems to be a common complaint these days just about ever where.
    • uncle meat wrote:

      StalkingTortoise wrote:

      max.patch wrote:

      i met a ski instructor at killington who did it the "wrong way".

      lived in vermont during the winter and in florida during the summer.

      as a skier and scuba diver that worked for him.
      My sister and I just cooked up a retirement plan a few weeks ago that should be the "right way". She spent a bunch of years in Maine along the coast and will be moving back there when she hits 65. My wife and I are soon looking for a lakefront lot in South Carolina.If all goes well, she will winter with us and we will summer with her. Win / win. And did I mention that she is a gourmet cook?

      Can't wait to move out of Pennsylvania. Damn legislature / governor have an insatiable need to spend more than they have, and then raise taxes to pay for it. Add in a very generous but underfunded state worker pension system that is bankrupting the school districts and my only hope is to be gone before it all explodes.
      Seems to be a common complaint these days just about ever where.
      Just imagine how bad it is going to get when the millennials are in charge! ;(
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General
    • Yesterday while driving to work I heard a survey report on the radio that said 38% of millennials would rather live in a socialist country than a capitalist one and that 24% would choose communism over capitalism. That's over half that want somebody else to take care of them, we're doomed! ;(
    • LIhikers wrote:

      Yesterday while driving to work I heard a survey report on the radio that said 38% of millennials would rather live in a socialist country than a capitalist one and that 24% would choose communism over capitalism. That's over half that want somebody else to take care of them, we're doomed! ;(
      crazy ain’t it!
      I’d rather wreck my own life, thank you very much.
    • LIhikers wrote:

      Yesterday while driving to work I heard a survey report on the radio that said 38% of millennials would rather live in a socialist country than a capitalist one and that 24% would choose communism over capitalism. That's over half that want somebody else to take care of them, we're doomed! ;(
      I wish that anyone this stupid would just get on the next flight to the Socialist Utopia of Venezuela and stay there.

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes
      “Of all sad words of tongue or pen,
      the saddest are these, 'It might have been.”


      John Greenleaf Whittier
    • So...if you are a student of history, you would note that Socialism rises when the working class is actively exploited by the ownership class with support from the ruling class. That's how unions started and Socialism is merely an extension of the objectives of unionism, prevent the exploitation of the worker by the employer who is assisted by the government. So, ask yourself a question...who is today's "working class"? Who are today's disenfranchised? Who perceives the future as bleak due to exploitation of the working class by the ruling class? Look what is happening at this moment in history. The Nation is polarized. Many who are unknowingly part of the working class gleefully voted in a President who is a historical abuser of the working class, as was his father. Mainly on the promise to "make America great again", which is nothing more than a thinly veiled reference to white male dominance, and a return to the upward mobility and comfort that the post-war working class enjoyed. A bill of goods was sold. And, the light bulb is now naked and glowing brightly. And all that is happening in DC is that the plan is for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer. For affordable healthcare to disappear. For social safety nets to disappear. For post-secondary education to become un-affordable to the working class. And both the youth and the working class have perked up their ears. It is only natural, and historically consistent, that current events dictate a significant rise in Socialist sympathy/endorsement among the youth and the working class. The working class actively played a role in electing a robber baron and to say they have buyer's remorse is the understatement of the decade. Which is why you just saw an amazing Blue sweep last Tuesday, with more to come. It isn't "the pendulum swinging", there hasn't been the passage of enough time for that phenomena to occur. It's reality sinking in. And if anyone is surprised that if polled at the moment both the youth and the working class favor Socialist concepts, then they need to get a better grasp on history in the USA, cognitive dissonance and disenfranchisement...

      You do realize that the happiest citizens in the world are those of Social Democracies, right? And that those top three happy countries that happen to be Social Democracies are also financially successful? Ever been to the Netherlands? Denmark? Norway? Want to try and explain how Social Democracy is an epic fail to any of those nations? How their citizens enjoy less prosperity, less health, shorter life expectancy, higher infant mortality, longer prison sentences, higher crime rates and lower education levels than the USA? Oh...wait....yeah...ummm.......there's a problem with that....it would be this inconvenient little thing....it's called...."truth"....just sayin....

      But, we have our guns. They won't ever take those away. Which, is exactly why we will never, to our detriment, ever have a Social Democracy in the USA. Guns. Seriously. Can you freaking believe it?
    • ScareBear wrote:


      You do realize that the happiest citizens in the world are those of Social Democracies, right?
      You mean like the National Socialist German Workers Party?



      ScareBear wrote:


      And that those top three happy countries that happen to be Social Democracies are also financially successful? Ever been to the Netherlands? Denmark? Norway? Want to try and explain how Social Democracy is an epic fail to any of those nations? How their citizens enjoy less prosperity, less health, shorter life expectancy, higher infant mortality, longer prison sentences, higher crime rates and lower education levels than the USA?
      You do realize that these countries have been implementing 'capitalist' reforms to try to invigorate their previously stagnant economies, cutting tax rates, cutting social benefits?

      "The problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of other people's money"

      If you really want to look to Europe for an economic model to follow, look to Switzerland, one of the most capitalistic and gun toting countries on Earth.
      “Of all sad words of tongue or pen,
      the saddest are these, 'It might have been.”


      John Greenleaf Whittier
    • IMScotty wrote:

      ScareBear wrote:

      You do realize that the happiest citizens in the world are those of Social Democracies, right?
      You mean like the National Socialist German Workers Party?


      ScareBear wrote:

      And that those top three happy countries that happen to be Social Democracies are also financially successful? Ever been to the Netherlands? Denmark? Norway? Want to try and explain how Social Democracy is an epic fail to any of those nations? How their citizens enjoy less prosperity, less health, shorter life expectancy, higher infant mortality, longer prison sentences, higher crime rates and lower education levels than the USA?
      You do realize that these countries have been implementing 'capitalist' reforms to try to invigorate their previously stagnant economies, cutting tax rates, cutting social benefits?
      "The problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of other people's money"

      If you really want to look to Europe for an economic model to follow, look to Switzerland, one of the most capitalistic and gun toting countries on Earth.
      The national debt to GNP ratio of any of those countries to the USA is hilarious. We are broke. They are not. We have no comparative social support system, so a slight decline in theirs leaves them still light-years above ours.

      The Swiss have a high gun ownership percentage only because they are allowed to purchase their reserve service rifles and keep them in their home for national defense purposes, not because they are sporting SigSauer P226's on their hips in public!

      The Swiss also have a bizarre tax structure that would never work in the US and a bizarre historical hand on the world's money. What product do you think the Swiss manufacture and export that makes them so wealthy? Chocolate? Pistols? Automobiles? Corn? Oil? The Swiss are a one-of-a-kind nation...well...Luxembourg is the same thing and Monaco as well...just microscopically smaller. Not a great comparison to either the US or any Social Democracy.

      And, please don't confuse Social Democracy with true Socialism. Two completely different animals.
    • ScareBear wrote:


      ............. Ever been to the Netherlands? Denmark? Norway? Want to try and explain how Social Democracy is an epic fail to any of those nations? How their citizens enjoy less prosperity, less health, shorter life expectancy, higher infant mortality, longer prison sentences, higher crime rates and lower education levels than the USA? Oh...wait....yeah...ummm.......there's a problem with that....it would be this inconvenient little thing....it's called...."truth"....just sayin....

      But, we have our guns. They won't ever take those away. Which, is exactly why we will never, to our detriment, ever have a Social Democracy in the USA. Guns. Seriously. Can you freaking believe it?
      Well, I lived, and worked in the Netherlands for 6 months in the 1980s.
      Trust me, the guys I worked with complained about their government just as much as we do here.
      Now, I understand that was a long time ago, and things may have changed significantly.
      But I think a lot of it is the usual "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" syndrome.
    • That’s all fine and well for them, but the experiment this country was founded on is a democracy, where it breaks down is not eplementing to laws on the books, if ya want change, change the laws, or better still go live somewhere where the weather suits your clothes. I’m for a limited govenerment and the freedom to live and die as I choose.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Jake Ace: Some where/somewhere ().

    • I’ve lived throughout Europe. The common thread was the personal tax rate of upwards to 70% and the value added tax of upwards to 30% on most items. However a hospital stay did not place the average European in financial jeopardy.

      Lest we forget.....



      SSgt Ray Rangel - USAF
      SrA Elizabeth Loncki - USAF
      PFC Adam Harris - USA
      MSgt Eden Pearl - USMC
    • Dan76 wrote:

      I’ve lived throughout Europe. The common thread was the personal tax rate of upwards to 70% and the value added tax of upwards to 30% on most items. However a hospital stay did not place the average European in financial jeopardy.
      I’d have a very difficult time handing over 70% of my overtime pay cause I was trying to get ahead.
    • Dan76 wrote:

      I’ve lived throughout Europe. The common thread was the personal tax rate of upwards to 70% and the value added tax of upwards to 30% on most items. However a hospital stay did not place the average European in financial jeopardy.
      And they don't have to eat cat food after retirement. And they don't have to spend their retirement savings putting their kids through college. And they don't have to spend a penny of their retirement money on healthcare. Or property taxes. The upwards of 70 percent is for the 1 percent. The majority of personal income tax is below 40 percent. VAT averages at 20 percent, except for the sin tax in UK that forces drinkers and smokers to shuttle to France for their smokes and booze. I've spent a LOT of time in Europe and a lot of that time was in the Netherlands. The bitching I heard was mostly about the open immigration policy to former colonies eroding the essential base of Netherland democracy and customs...much like Trump, believe it or not...as far as social programs, all the Nederlanders I know are well satisfied with them, their income, their tax structure, and more importantly, they are well satisfied with their quality of life, especially when compared to the entire rest of the EU. In fact, the majority of Nederlanders were against joining the EU and the majority want to withdraw. Plus, they are totally pro USA, anti Germany, pro NATO and focused on individual liberties and keeping the government out of their individual freedoms. The Dutch are more like Americans than the British. More like Americans than any other nation, including Canada...IMHO...
    • uncle meat wrote:

      Dan76 wrote:

      I’ve lived throughout Europe. The common thread was the personal tax rate of upwards to 70% and the value added tax of upwards to 30% on most items. However a hospital stay did not place the average European in financial jeopardy.
      I’d have a very difficult time handing over 70% of my overtime pay cause I was trying to get ahead.
      IIRC, you get double pay and double longevity/vacation credits for any time over 35 hours. Plus minimum of one month paid vacation. You don't pay for health care. You have virtually no property taxes. You don't have to contribute separately to Social Security. You either pay nothing or very little for University. The trains run on time and are inexpensive. When you start adding it all up, for the same 50k income, the Nederlander is WAY ahead in comfort, safety, healthcare, education and retirement. Way ahead of USA. It is sad to make the actual comparison...
    • uncle meat wrote:

      That’s all fine and well for them, but the experiment this country was founded on is a democracy, where it breaks down is not eplementing to laws on the books, if ya want change, change the laws, or better still go live somewhere where the weather suits your clothes. I’m for a limited govenerment and the freedom to live and die as I choose.
      So are the Dutch. Except, in the Netherlands you do have the freedom to die as you choose. For free. Euthanasia. Can't have THAT in the USA, eh?

      There is absolutely NOTHING in the Constitution that would in ANY way prevent the US from shifting to a Social Democracy. Not one damn thing. Laws on the books? WTH is THAT? Change WHAT laws??

      Your desire for limited government is a political view, not a Constitutional right or guarantee...
    • ScareBear wrote:

      uncle meat wrote:

      That’s all fine and well for them, but the experiment this country was founded on is a democracy, where it breaks down is not eplementing to laws on the books, if ya want change, change the laws, or better still go live somewhere where the weather suits your clothes. I’m for a limited govenerment and the freedom to live and die as I choose.
      So are the Dutch. Except, in the Netherlands you do have the freedom to die as you choose. For free. Euthanasia. Can't have THAT in the USA, eh?
      There is absolutely NOTHING in the Constitution that would in ANY way prevent the US from shifting to a Social Democracy. Not one damn thing. Laws on the books? WTH is THAT? Change WHAT laws??

      Your desire for limited government is a political view, not a Constitutional right or guarantee...
      I’m a fan of Dr. Kevorkian, we do it with our pets.
      Don’t yell at me, I didn’t yell at you, when you read my posts on this further, assume I’m using my inside voice.
      The persuit of happiness, I wouldn’t be happy having a government relieve me of 7 tenths of my pay. Pardon my not being a polysci major, perhaps you could dumb it down.
    • ScareBear wrote:

      uncle meat wrote:

      Dan76 wrote:

      I’ve lived throughout Europe. The common thread was the personal tax rate of upwards to 70% and the value added tax of upwards to 30% on most items. However a hospital stay did not place the average European in financial jeopardy.
      I’d have a very difficult time handing over 70% of my overtime pay cause I was trying to get ahead.
      IIRC, you get double pay and double longevity/vacation credits for any time over 35 hours. Plus minimum of one month paid vacation. You don't pay for health care. You have virtually no property taxes. You don't have to contribute separately to Social Security. You either pay nothing or very little for University. The trains run on time and are inexpensive. When you start adding it all up, for the same 50k income, the Nederlander is WAY ahead in comfort, safety, healthcare, education and retirement. Way ahead of USA. It is sad to make the actual comparison...
      it's sad you need to exaggerate to make your point.
    • So if I work part time next year and make just a little money, I'll have to pay a bunch of tax on it and my health care will cost $18,000 for the two of us. But if I don't work I can get health care for free or go to an upgrade plan for about $250 per month. So if I work part time I pretty much go in the hole. The system is screwed up!!!!
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference
    • chief wrote:

      a few quick checks online

      cost of living index - Netherlands is higher on average than USA (as of Nov 2017)
      property taxes - Netherlands yes of course - paid annually to local gov based on value - sound familiar?

      a good argument need no exaggeration.
      Property tax is .1 to .3 percent of value in NL. I pay 2.5 percent of assessed value to my local government...how about you?

      The cost of living is higher mainly because of fuel costs and VAT. In NL you pay about $150 a month for health insurance that has a $400 annual deductible. Your kids under 18 pay not a penny for health insurance. If you consider how much I pay for health insurance for myself and two kids(one under 18 and one in college...oh yeah...I pay for all of college...) and how much I pay in real estate taxes, am I really better off being taxed at 28 percent v. 40 percent? Throw in a pension scheme that gives you....70 percent of your wage in retirement. Try that in the USA. It's the best retirement system in the WORLD. Oh. Wait. I forgot STATE INCOME TAX. Oh...that's.....3.5 percent....oh....my tax rate is really 31.5 percent....oh....yeah...better off in the US on a TAX basis? I don't see it....

      Throw in the fact that tuition in Netherlands is $2500 per year for university. I pay $15,000 per year for University of Illinois tuition.

      Sorry, the taxation argument is an epic fail and I don't need hyperbole or exaggeration. These are the facts.
    • I

      chief wrote:

      ScareBear wrote:

      uncle meat wrote:

      Dan76 wrote:

      I’ve lived throughout Europe. The common thread was the personal tax rate of upwards to 70% and the value added tax of upwards to 30% on most items. However a hospital stay did not place the average European in financial jeopardy.
      I’d have a very difficult time handing over 70% of my overtime pay cause I was trying to get ahead.
      IIRC, you get double pay and double longevity/vacation credits for any time over 35 hours. Plus minimum of one month paid vacation. You don't pay for health care. You have virtually no property taxes. You don't have to contribute separately to Social Security. You either pay nothing or very little for University. The trains run on time and are inexpensive. When you start adding it all up, for the same 50k income, the Nederlander is WAY ahead in comfort, safety, healthcare, education and retirement. Way ahead of USA. It is sad to make the actual comparison...
      it's sad you need to exaggerate to make your point.
      I've not exaggerated one thing. Proof please. See my prior post. Here are some links for MY proof of fact:

      mffa.nl/wp-content/uploads/Inc…ty-in-the-Netherlands.pdf

      docs.oracle.com/cd/E51994_01/h…heNetherlands-297fed.html

      iamsterdam.com/en/study/plan-y…dy/tuition-fees-and-costs
    • jimmyjam wrote:

      So if I work part time next year and make just a little money, I'll have to pay a bunch of tax on it and my health care will cost $18,000 for the two of us. But if I don't work I can get health care for free or go to an upgrade plan for about $250 per month. So if I work part time I pretty much go in the hole. The system is screwed up!!!!
      More than you think.... Its the first time in American History you can get paid not to work.
      There was an Old Man with a owl,
      Who continued to bother and howl;
      He sat on a rail, And imbibed bitter ale,
      Which refreshed that Old Man and his owl.WOO
    • Let's forget about arguing who's got it better, them or us, and concentrate on what would make things better here.
      A big step in that direction, as I see it, would be if our governments, federal, state, and local, didn't spend more than they took in.
      While the devil is in the details, there's only two ways to do that, we pay more in taxes and fees or the governments only spend what they have.
      I guess a third option would be a little of each of the above.
      I haven't heard a politician talk about a balanced budget in years.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by LIhikers ().

    • not gonna take the time to fact check myself since i believe i'm right. :)

      the last balanced budget was under eisenhower. the "balanced budget" under clinton was fiction as it treated social security contributions as revenue to be spent and not as a liability to be repaid.
      2,000 miler