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Alcohol Stoves

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    • The stand is 0.047" music wire and 1/8" outside diameter brass tube with a 0.014" wall thickness.

      The stove is made from an Underwood deviled ham can, a 30 mm tall section of an aluminum can of spray cheese, and a 3/4" tall capillary strip cut from an aluminum soda can. The capillary strip wraps around the outside of the inner cylinder. The stove is 1 1/4" tall, 2 5/8" in diameter, and holds an ounce of fuel. There are six vertical jets 3/64" in diameter. The space between the steel can and the inner cylinder is sealed with JB Weld. There are six notches filed in the top of the inner cylinder above the jets, to relieve pressure when a pot is placed directly on the burner (not the intended mode of use, and only works when both the stove and the pot are hot).

      The rate of burn is reduced by moving the burner closer to the bottom of the pot, either with a shorter stand, or by placing something under the burner. After the water boils, the stand can be removed and the pot can be placed directly on the inner cylinder. Without a stand, the flames lick the sides of the burner, making the rate of burn nearly as fast as with the stand. So if you want to simmer, use a short stand, or raise the burner.
      I am human and I need to be loved - just like everybody else does

      The post was edited 2 times, last by WanderingStovie ().

    • WanderingStovie wrote:

      The stand is 0.047" music wire and 1/8" outside diameter brass tube with a 0.014" wall thickness.

      The stove is made from an Underwood deviled ham can, a 30 mm tall section of an aluminum can of spray cheese, and a 3/4" tall capillary strip cut from an aluminum soda can. The capillary strip wraps around the outside of the inner cylinder. The stove is 1 1/4" tall, 2 5/8" in diameter, and holds an ounce of fuel. There are six vertical jets 3/64" in diameter. The space between the steel can and the inner cylinder is sealed with JB Weld. There are six notches filed in the top of the inner cylinder above the jets, to relieve pressure when a pot is placed directly on the burner (not the intended mode of use, and only works when both the stove and the pot are hot).

      The rate of burn is reduced by moving the burner closer to the bottom of the pot, either with a shorter stand, or by placing something under the burner. After the water boils, the stand can be removed and the pot can be placed directly on the inner cylinder. Without a stand, the flames lick the sides of the burner, making the rate of burn nearly as fast as with the stand. So if you want to simmer, use a short stand, or raise the burner.



      You and BB never cease to amaze me with your inventions and tinkering.
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference
    • CoachLou wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      Two stands ready to go. They will be in the mail to Camden soon.



      Man,
      she is going to be carrying quite a load! ^^


      One of the those stands is staying in Maine. Violet will only be taking half of the stuff I sent to her. Half of it belongs to her. Of course she could take hers with her I suppose.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.
    • TrafficJam wrote:

      BB, thank you so much for my stove, it's a work of art. It has a special shelf in my studio.


      I got a beautiful rug in the mail today. No matter how much junk I mail out, I can never seem to keep up with the generosity of others. Thank you TJ. By the way, you will be getting a couple stands for your eCHS stoves as soon as I get more material to build them.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.
    • BirdBrain wrote:

      CoachLou wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      Two stands ready to go. They will be in the mail to Camden soon.



      Man,
      she is going to be carrying quite a load! ^^


      One of the those stands is staying in Maine. Violet will only be taking half of the stuff I sent to her. Half of it belongs to her. Of course she could take hers with her I suppose.

      I expect she will. I am encouraging her to bring excessive gear and make choices as to what to carry when she is here with the option to switch at any point. Not slack packing her but am re supplying at frequent intervals.
      Resident Australian, proving being a grumpy old man is not just an American trait.
    • BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BB, thank you so much for my stove, it's a work of art. It has a special shelf in my studio.


      I got a beautiful rug in the mail today. No matter how much junk I mail out, I can never seem to keep up with the generosity of others. Thank you TJ. By the way, you will be getting a couple stands for your eCHS stoves as soon as I get more material to build them.


      I'm glad you like the rug...I was happy to get it off the loom and now I'm starting to get excited about my next project.

      BTW, it's cotton so machine wash gentle cycle and lie flat to dry.
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Yo Stove Wonks!

      On TOS there are regularly questions about alcohol stoves vs canister stoves and inevitably someone chimes in to state that alcohol stoves are take forever to boil water, use a lot of fuel, and don't perform well in cold (one said that after 15 min the water never boiled). I thought that since we were in the midst of a polar vortex, it would be a good night for some testing. I ran two tests - one in my kitchen on one on my deck. The system is a DIY eCHS stove from a juice can (1.5" tall), an Olicamp XTS pot with lid, DIY aluminum flashing cylinder wind screen (4.5" tall with radius 1/4" larger than pot, lots of air holes), stainless steel hardware cloth pot stand (3 1/8" tall - bottom of pot is 1/2" higher than that due to the heat exchanger), a square of Al foil underneath everything for protection all setting on a plastic cutting board a table. The volume of fuel to boil water was calculated from the formula: mL to boil=total mL fuel total x (time to boil/time to flame out). Both tests used 16 oz (2 cups) of water and 25.0 mL of fuel (SLX denatured alcohol which is 50:50 ethanol/methanol). For the outside test, I let the fuel and stove set outside until the fuel temperature measured the same as the air temp which was 2 degrees below zero F. At -2 F, alcohol didn't poof into flames when you light it, so I just dropped the match into the alcohol which worked fine. I can't see the flame during the test, but based on the sound and the water condensing at the top of the wind screen, it seemed to take about 10 seconds for the stove to get going in the kitchen and about 60 seconds outside. The volume of fuel to boil calculation assumes a linear burn rate from the time I start the clock (right after I put the pot on the stove). From past tests, I know this is a good approximation inside, but it probably isn't for the outside test since the stove seemed to take about a minute to get going. Since the time to flame out, the time to boil, and the time to prime were all delayed by about the same amount in the outside test, I conclude that the power (time to boil) and efficiency (fuel to boil) for both tests were about the same once the stove got going. Thus the only effect of the cold (72 degrees F colder than room temperature) was a 1 minute delay in starting the stove.

      Here are the data.

      Test
      Kitchen
      Outside
      Ambient Temp (deg F)
      70.0
      -2.0
      Wind Speed (Furlongs/Fortnight)
      zero
      negligible
      Initial Water Temp (deg F)
      70.0
      68.0
      Initial Fuel Temp (deg F)
      70.0
      -2.0
      Time to Boil (Min:Sec)
      4:00
      5:00
      Time to Flame Out (Min:Sec)
      7:15
      8:05
      Volume of Fuel Needed to Boil (mL)
      13.8
      15.5
      Sanity of Tester

      Questionable
    • I have seen similar results. If you have an efficient system that defines the environment, weather conditions matter little. The eCHS is the bomb. It runs fine sitting in a snowbank. Thermal conductivity is largely irrelevant when the fuel is not burning in the bowl. Having a good screen is another huge step toward defeating the elements. An air gap is a fantastic insulator if it is not moving rapidly away from what it is insulating. Good job OMO. Spread the word. You have the best stove possible.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by BirdBrain ().

    • Follow up to the cold weather test.

      I calculated the efficiency and power for both tests, subtracting 10 seconds from the inside times and 60 seconds from the outside times to adjust for priming time. When I do this, the power and efficiency of the outside test were both 96% of the inside test. It would seem the only effect of the cold was a 50 second delay in starting.

      It's amazing how many people think alcohol stoves don't work in the cold. Now I just need to make some tea at the summit of Kilimanjaro to disprove the elevation myth.
    • The alcohol stove discussion suffers from a confusion between power and efficiency. Also, many people equate a homemade alcohol stove system with a cat food can and a piece of tinfoil.

      I should note that choosing a powerful stove like a jetboil or a simple stove like a supercat is neither ignorant, nor stupid. It is just a choice. There are very compelling reason to choose a jetboil or supercat. You have to be a little touched to spend months straining over a gram of fuel as some of us do.

      Having said all that, I still believe the eCHS paired with a good pot and screen is the perfect stove system.... for me. It is efficient, powerful, functional, reliable, lightweight, and beautiful. It does not require priming, can be run in the most adverse weather conditions, and allows for fuel recovery. And the best part of it all is that although I did not design it, I made it and have customized it to my preferences. It short, it is my choice. And that makes it perfect.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by BirdBrain ().

    • I'm still meaning to build an eCHS. (So many projects, so little time...)

      In the meantime, my Penny Stove 2.0 (with primer) is still hanging in there. Got a couple of boils out of it in subzero temperatures on my last trip. In the morning the fuel was durned cold - probably close to ambient. I had to stick a wisp of TP in the primer and light that. The primer took off, and the stove lit and burned just as well as usual once it was going.
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.
    • TrafficJam wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      BB, thank you so much for my stove, it's a work of art. It has a special shelf in my studio.


      I got a beautiful rug in the mail today. No matter how much junk I mail out, I can never seem to keep up with the generosity of others. Thank you TJ. By the way, you will be getting a couple stands for your eCHS stoves as soon as I get more material to build them.


      I'm glad you like the rug...I was happy to get it off the loom and now I'm starting to get excited about my next project.

      BTW, it's cotton so machine wash gentle cycle and lie flat to dry.




      Your stands are done. Note the size difference. I sent you two difference sized eCHS stoves. Therefore, I made a short stand and a tall stand. Pair them up accordingly.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.
    • Tetrahedral Pot Support



      I like the truss idea, BB. I went 3-D with it. Here is a tetrahedral pot support, but you need three to support a pot. It should work with flat-bottomed containers, but not bowling balls. You might be able to balance a bowling ball if you put one of the finger holes over the apex. I do not have a bowling ball.

      It folds to save space, but does not lie completely flat. With practice, I could probably make the edges of even length and make the corners line up better. It does not require perfection to be useful.

      I built it from 0.047" diameter music wire and aluminum and brass tubing of 1/8" diameter and 0.014" wall thickness. The inner diameter of the tubing is therefore 0.097", just big enough to slip over two wires. Using two pieces of wire 230 mm long, I formed equilateral triangles with sides 70 mm long, with 10 mm hooks at the ends. The two triangles are hinged with a 63 mm long aluminum tube, and a 65 mm long brass tube slips over the hooks to form the sixth edge of the tetrahedron. The height of the tetrahedron can be varied somewhat by changing the length of the brass tube and adjusting the angle of the 10 mm hooks.

      The aluminum tube should be at the base where it will not melt in the flame. The brass tube should then be upright, since it is somewhat more resistant to the heat of the flame.
      I am human and I need to be loved - just like everybody else does



    • Does anyone else want one? If so, PM me your address, height of current stand (desired distance from the ground to the bottom of your pot if you don't have a stand), and diameter of stove. This stand is designed for center burner stoves. It will not work properly for side burners or stoves with large diameters. Okay.... I will say it.... it is designed for the eCHS. However, it will work for any center burner stove that is not much wider than 53mm. I am moving on from this project. Just wanted to offer before I do.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.
    • WanderingStovie wrote:



      I like the truss idea, BB. I went 3-D with it. Here is a tetrahedral pot support, but you need three to support a pot. It should work with flat-bottomed containers, but not bowling balls. You might be able to balance a bowling ball if you put one of the finger holes over the apex. I do not have a bowling ball.

      It folds to save space, but does not lie completely flat. With practice, I could probably make the edges of even length and make the corners line up better. It does not require perfection to be useful.

      I built it from 0.047" diameter music wire and aluminum and brass tubing of 1/8" diameter and 0.014" wall thickness. The inner diameter of the tubing is therefore 0.097", just big enough to slip over two wires. Using two pieces of wire 230 mm long, I formed equilateral triangles with sides 70 mm long, with 10 mm hooks at the ends. The two triangles are hinged with a 63 mm long aluminum tube, and a 65 mm long brass tube slips over the hooks to form the sixth edge of the tetrahedron. The height of the tetrahedron can be varied somewhat by changing the length of the brass tube and adjusting the angle of the 10 mm hooks.

      The aluminum tube should be at the base where it will not melt in the flame. The brass tube should then be upright, since it is somewhat more resistant to the heat of the flame.


      I built another three supports using 0.032" diameter music wire, and aluminum and brass tubing of 3/32" outside diameter and 0.014" wall thickness. I made the edges 60 mm long and cut the tubes to 58 mm. They weigh about half what my last set weighed. They feel strong enough, IMO. I will let you all know how they work out on the trail.
      I am human and I need to be loved - just like everybody else does
    • It is too easy to soften the 0.032" diameter music wire, even with the supports moved to the very edge of the pot. Here is a different idea based on tetrahedrons, but using 0.078" diameter music wire and no tubes. I marked the wire at 50, 100, and 150 mm from the end, cut at the 150 mm mark, and bent 60 degree angles at the 50 and 100 mm marks. I spread the ends to be 50 mm apart. They stand about 1 3/4" tall. If you need 2 1/2" tall supports, mark the wire at 75, 150, and 225 mm instead. It is possible to make right-handed and left-handed versions. The trick is making three of the same handedness.

      I am human and I need to be loved - just like everybody else does

      The post was edited 1 time, last by WanderingStovie ().

    • You can limit power when you put a Groove Stove in the other container.
      This is similar to a simmer ring of a general alcohol stove.


      D1 is diameter of the Groove Stove.
      D2 is diameter of the other container.
      If D2 - D1 becomes less than 10 millimeters, you cannot limit power.
      H is the gap of the bottom of the pot and the other container.
      In the calculation of H, "=" is minimum power.


      It becomes the runaway when you use the large pot with a normal Groove Stove.
      However, the limit of the size of the pot disappears by this method.
      You can cook stew with the Groove Stove.


      As for my answer video, please wait a little bit more.
      Thank you.
    • koolranch wrote:

      @ BB, Wow! I just finished reading this thread! What a great wealth of knowledge and an awesome group of people. This is my fist post here. I mostly spend my time over on the Hammock forum and the ADV Motorcycle forum. There is so much great information here!

      Steve
      Welcome to the cafe. There are a lot of current and former motorcyclists and quite a few hangers here so you're in good company.
      Lost in the right direction.