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The END of EMS

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    • The END of EMS

      Not much to talk about - Amazon and others are killing small destination Backpacker stores. EMS is closing Exton and many others...

      How do you feel about this.. I like the place - but the world is changing.
      [IMG:https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/0f6a49f1b7264a38d533cac2de73030f2981b013/c=1-0-681-511&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2016/05/02/NJGroup/Bridgewater/635977757484925134-EMS.jpeg]
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Wise Old Owl ().

    • To the best of my knowledge they still have one more shot. What I heard was that half their stores were closing and that the company was purchased by an new owner.

      I really is a damn shame. I've been going there for half my life and have been a long time fan of their house brand equipment.
      Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
    • Blue Jay La Fey wrote:

      Amazon and it's minions are trying to kill all retail. There is a strong chance that they will be successful, but we're not robots yet.
      REI and Dick's are both successful. B&M stores still have their place.

      They just have to reinvent themselves.

      REI sold the lifestyle rather well:
      • Coffee shops in some stores
      • Community rooms for local groups
      • Many talks
      • Classes (I am taking my NOLS WFA class there in two weeks for example)
      • Repair shops for bikes and skis
      • Rentals
      Not that EMS did not do this in some ways, but their model was strip mall retail stores for a long time. An older model in this age of Amazon.

      REI built destinations. A store that was part of your life. A place to go and and also spend money.

      REI made the changes above more part of their overall plan vs the ad hoc nature of EMS.

      REI is thriving because they evolved and adapted.

      Dick's is thriving but faces more challenges it seems. I do not know that store as well, so I defer to others...
      fool.com/investing/2017/03/12/…in-class-but-in-a-sh.aspx

      The post was edited 1 time, last by PaulMags ().

    • I will confess, I have become an Amazon junkie...free shipping, no taxes...recent purchases...$62 leather steering wheel cover $10.99, $120 bike rack, $39, $500 bike, $300...I support local stores if it's close, but I don't give money away. All things have a life, then they go the way of all flesh, something will one day put Amazon to rest, but doubt it will be in my lifetime.
      I may grow old but I'll never grow up.
    • Blue Jay La Fey wrote:

      Amazon and it's minions are trying to kill all retail. There is a strong chance that they will be successful, but we're not robots yet.
      Regarding the lack of sales tax for online purchase, as of Jan 1 Amazon collects Utah sales tax while receiving a 1.8% fee from the state.

      The small business owners I know welcome this as they've seen a reduction in folks doing a touchy-feeling on an item in their shop and ordering the item online.

      Lest we forget.....



      SSgt Ray Rangel - USAF
      SrA Elizabeth Loncki - USAF
      PFC Adam Harris - USA
      MSgt Eden Pearl - USMC

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Dan76: Left out the state. ().

    • The world changes. Amazon exists solely because of the internet. 1996.

      Walmart is a success because it has achieved giant economies of scale and impressive vertical integration(they have their own captive bank!), both classic methods of success that were discovered hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago.

      In 10 years, there probably won't be anymore indoor shopping malls. Prior to 1950, there weren't any at all. Everything has a life-cycle. Get over it.

      Times change. Stop bemoaning Amazon. Amazon merely harnessed the promise of the Internet. Smart business. Not predatory. Well managed. Effective logistics. So effective that they forced the USPS to deliver their First Class Mail on Sundays! If it wasn't going to be Amazon, it was going to be somebody. Would you prefer it had been Walmart?

      And, while it's the fashion of the day to bash Walmart, the damn thing has been around longer than almost all of us have been alive. It's been a model of management success. It didn't happen overnight. It happened over 70 freaking years. Again, get the hell over it by now!

      Mom and Pop stores...selective memory for most of us. Limited selection of products by a limited selection of vendors, at full MSRP. That's why REI got started in the first place. And EMS. And Campmor. Because Mom and Pop weren't getting it done. If you can't get it done, you become extinct. Rule #1 of Economics.

      Just for reference, I actually believed we'd have flying cars by now more than I believed I would be carrying a StarTrek-like communicator/tricorder that has the power of Two hundred million(or something like that) Commodore 64's inside, along with a still camera, a video camera and some kind of bizarre locator that uses beacons from outer space to determine my exact location on Earth...

      Times Change. Change with the Times. Or....fossil fuel...just sayin....
    • Please note that Sam Walton was a role model for Jeff Bezos. In addition to their supply chain expertise, both focused on customer satisfaction.

      In addition to products I buy from both, I love it when they hire my students for the new jobs they are creating. :)
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General
    • PaulMags wrote:

      Blue Jay La Fey wrote:

      Amazon and it's minions are trying to kill all retail. There is a strong chance that they will be successful, but we're not robots yet.
      REI and Dick's are both successful. B&M stores still have their place.
      They just have to reinvent themselves.

      REI sold the lifestyle rather well:
      • Coffee shops in some stores
      • Community rooms for local groups
      • Many talks
      • Classes (I am taking my NOLS WFA class there in two weeks for example)
      • Repair shops for bikes and skis
      • Rentals
      Not that EMS did not do this in some ways, but their model was strip mall retail stores for a long time. An older model in this age of Amazon.

      REI built destinations. A store that was part of your life. A place to go and and also spend money.

      REI made the changes above more part of their overall plan vs the ad hoc nature of EMS.

      REI is thriving because they evolved and adapted.

      Dick's is thriving but faces more challenges it seems. I do not know that store as well, so I defer to others...
      fool.com/investing/2017/03/12/…in-class-but-in-a-sh.aspx
      Dicks has good deals on clothing. Often I can find golf 1/4 zip pullovers that work for hiking for $25 or less. You will never find that at REI.
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123
    • PaulMags wrote:

      Blue Jay La Fey wrote:

      Amazon and it's minions are trying to kill all retail. There is a strong chance that they will be successful, but we're not robots yet.
      REI and Dick's are both successful. B&M stores still have their place.
      They just have to reinvent themselves.

      REI sold the lifestyle rather well:
      • Coffee shops in some stores
      • Community rooms for local groups
      • Many talks
      • Classes (I am taking my NOLS WFA class there in two weeks for example)
      • Repair shops for bikes and skis
      • Rentals
      Not that EMS did not do this in some ways, but their model was strip mall retail stores for a long time. An older model in this age of Amazon.

      REI built destinations. A store that was part of your life. A place to go and and also spend money.

      REI made the changes above more part of their overall plan vs the ad hoc nature of EMS.

      REI is thriving because they evolved and adapted.

      Dick's is thriving but faces more challenges it seems. I do not know that store as well, so I defer to others...
      fool.com/investing/2017/03/12/…in-class-but-in-a-sh.aspx
      I was an REI coop member for more than 20 years before I ever stepped foot in a store. In the old days, it was the awesome selection and fair pricing that got me. Campmor was more...."low end" gear, but they had some great sales, especially on their house brand stuff. I've still got some ancient Polartec quarter zip sweaters branded Campor that I wear in the field.
      I've NEVER availed myself of REI brick/mortar stufff that you cite. Seems...the classes offered at the STL REI are....well....I could teach them. All very beginner=y stuff. Except for the bike repair classes. I suppose some people go to REI as a "destination"...which caused my irony meter to explode as I just typed this sentence...
    • Rasty wrote:

      Astro wrote:

      I was excited for the first time I went to an REI store. It was OK, but did not quite meet my expectations. But that may have been my fault for expecting too much.
      When your knowledgeable about a subject the average store is mildly disappointing.
      When I got back into hiking my local EMS spoiled me. The first person to help me out was an avid long distance section hiker, and the second guy had done the AT and PCT and spent hours with me on multiple occasions getting my initial gear setup (I learned later that he hiked the Northern part of the PCT with Jester in 2007 and is in the Wizards of the PCT documentary). I met another employee at the same store who is an ultra runner and avid hiker, he and I are now friends and we used to go to the climbing gym regularly.

      In contrast, when I first went to my local REI, their experienced person implied that I'd die if I didn't filter my water and more than one of their employees asked if I needed help and the read me the info from the tags on various pieces of gear I was asking specific questions about. In fairness to them, that store was relatively new when I first went and the quality of employees at that location has increased in recent years.
      Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
    • The very first time I stepped into a REI store was in Austin TX. As I was looking for a lightweight tent, she sensed I was looking for a backpacking model. She made a few recommendations, I made notes, and than asked for her number. She countered by stating she was going to lunch in a few minutes and would I join her. Turns out she had thrued the AT the previous summer and was planning for various European trails the following summer.

      I enjoy visiting REI locations.

      Lest we forget.....



      SSgt Ray Rangel - USAF
      SrA Elizabeth Loncki - USAF
      PFC Adam Harris - USA
      MSgt Eden Pearl - USMC
    • Dan76 wrote:

      The very first time I stepped into a REI store was in Austin TX. As I was looking for a lightweight tent, she sensed I was looking for a backpacking model. She made a few recommendations, I made notes, and than asked for her number. She countered by stating she was going to lunch in a few minutes and would I join her. Turns out she had thrued the AT the previous summer and was planning for various European trails the following summer.

      I enjoy visiting REI locations.
      Now that sounds like an awesome experience! I believe I just hyped my first one up too much ahead of time.
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General
    • My shopping history:
      1. If Walmart has it I get it there, it's economical, it's local, if I decide I don't like it they take it back.
      2. Started out with a Discover credit card with 1% cash back, they stopped crediting me with the cash back, I left them forever and switched to a Cabelas card since I bought a lot of gear from them, they were once reasonably priced. The shipping they charged on gear I used the points to buy was too high...$17.00 to ship a pair of shoes...and prices went up and the offering went down, as did quality.
      3. Switched to REI credit card getting 1% back in points, I had to wait until June to get, I would have continued with them had they not been liberal political activists.
      4. Switched credit cards to Capital One, get 1.5% back which for me amounts to about $50.00 every month, started doing most of my shopping, other than Walmart, to Amazon, free shipping, best prices, if I don't like it I send it back.
      For a company to succeed they need 1. a product someone will buy for more than it cost to make, 2. customer service.
      I may grow old but I'll never grow up.
    • ScareBear wrote:

      I wI've NEVER availed myself of REI brick/mortar stufff that you cite. Seems...the classes offered at the STL REI are....well....I could teach them. All very beginner=y stuff. Except for the bike repair classes. I suppose some people go to REI as a "destination"...which caused my irony meter to explode as I just typed this sentence...

      You are probably an outlier. Based on how busy REIs get for what I cited, I suspect that is what most people indeed want a destination. Otherwise they would order through Amazon.

      The WFA cert(and WFR recerts) are less touchy feely only because they are through NOLS/WMI and are through a national recognized org. Having said that, there is a place for beginner stuff. The class I took through AMC with navigation was extremely helpful to a person new to the outdoors. And I still use those lessons to this day. We were all beginners at one point. The REI classes are low-cost or even free. And the talks can be interesting.

      But ultimately the lifestyle stuff is what brings people in..otherwise it is far easier to order through Amazon for not only cost, but time. I can't remember the last time I shopped at any B&M outdoor store. Well, that's not true. I did buy ski wax in December when I dropped off my skis for a repair... (Something not easy to do via mail order)
    • I am an outlier, apparently. REI b/m's don't attract me at all as a destination or lifestyle stop. Maybe it's because of my experience level in everything they offer. Maybe it's because I won't spend money on poseur fashion clothing.

      I do go to REI to try on hiking shoes/boots. I also go to REI before any backpacking trip to get fresh dehy(there is the oxymoron of the day...), a fuel canister, maybe some other disposables and possibly something if it is on a super deep discount. And, that's only because they are the only game in town that is a one-stop for this type of gear.

      I also went to the REI b/m for my BAFCUL3 during dividend week in 2014. T-dingo went to the REI b/m a couple of weeks ago to get me the Nemo Hornet2P during the anniversary sale. So we do actually GO to REI. But not for the lifestyle stuff. Or the poseur gear.

      I'm still a little pissed at REI for selling the FirstNeedDeluxeXLE purifier and then the next year stop selling it AND the replacement cartridges. Even on-line. WTF? Based on the sheer volume of Sawyer filter gear at REI, I'd almost guess that REI bought out Sawyer....

      REI knows its main target market. And it aint me. And, they know it.... :thumbsup:
    • When I got out of prison, I was the backpacking guy for a large local outdoor store. I had a couple and their four kids come in and I fitted them all for packs and showed them the latest gear. I spent over two hours with them. They wife took notes, they thanked me and said they'd think about it. I know they just went to the web and bought it.
      bacon can solve most any problem.
    • Went to Dick's Sporting Goods tonight, looked around at the hiking section, but did not get anything. Was there with my son to buy a wooden bat for upcoming Showcase that is supposed to have MLB scouts. So they will play some with wooden bats, and the regular BBCore bats for the college coaches the rest of the time.
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General
    • While I hate to see any EMS stores closing, especially the one I had the chance to go to in Manchester Center, VT this past summer, on a more positive note I heard Amazon is hiring around 1800 people in CT for a new distribution center.
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General
    • Astro wrote:

      Went to Dick's Sporting Goods tonight, looked around at the hiking section, but did not get anything. Was there with my son to buy a wooden bat for upcoming Showcase that is supposed to have MLB scouts. So they will play some with wooden bats, and the regular BBCore bats for the college coaches the rest of the time.
      Last time I was at Dick's Sporting Good (which I do like for many things) I was in the camping section while a sterotypical yuppie self assured power dad was trying to select a backpack for his ten-ish year old kid. From the conversation I overheard it was for some scouting use and the dad selected a terrible field and stream external pack and then proceeded to tell his kid to put it on an walk around to see how it fit. Frankly it was painful to watch how the pack swayed as he the kid walked around the store. I almost intervened, however 1) several employees walked by ignoring them 2) I didn't want to deal with the dad despite the fact that several slightly more expensive packs on the shelf would probably have been a much better option for the kid and 3) my opinion is often full of crap... Oh well.

      Astro wrote:

      While I hate to see any EMS stores closing, especially the one I had the chance to go to in Manchester Center, VT this past summer, on a more positive note I heard Amazon is hiring around 1800 people in CT for a new distribution center.
      Funny you menton that, I'm about 15 miles away and currently an unemployed bum... I wonder what they'd make of 14 years of investment banking experience.
      Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
    • Astro wrote:

      While I hate to see any EMS stores closing, especially the one I had the chance to go to in Manchester Center, VT this past summer, on a more positive note I heard Amazon is hiring around 1800 people in CT for a new distribution center.
      I talked with a student whom had worked at an Amazon distribution center and she spoke of how tough the working conditions were. Apparently as a worker builds an order, a time sheet predicts how long it should take to gather the items. Though she was an athlete in HS, she found it nearly impossible to build an order in the allotted time frame.

      Lest we forget.....



      SSgt Ray Rangel - USAF
      SrA Elizabeth Loncki - USAF
      PFC Adam Harris - USA
      MSgt Eden Pearl - USMC
    • STE, I am sure Amazon is heavy into metrics, so they might find those quantitative skills useful. Bezos background is as a Computer Science guy on Wall Street. Very driven person which is reflected in their culture. Overtime they burn some people out, but should be an interesting opportunity if a good fit for a position.
      I wish you well in finding a situation somewhere you are interested in. :)
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General