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A Backpacking note about Bacterial Soaps. FDA bans "ingredients"

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    • A Backpacking note about Bacterial Soaps. FDA bans "ingredients"

      I am a fan of some bacterial soaps. One of which removes any hiker funk on the planet. Hunter's Scent Away liquid soap removes all human scent caused by bacteria. The primary ingredient. Triclosan is popular for many reasons. Hidden in toothpaste it does a better job of removing bad breath and killing Halitosis germs. If you are bothered by this - if you read the directions - Don't swallow your toothpaste. Triclosan appears to be a better ingredient over lye in soaps. Lye is far more dangerous, a poison, as it can burn your skin.
      This chemical is used to bathe patients just out of surgery, used full strength for killing flesh eating bacteria. Some surgical parts are coated in this material.

      Triclosan is considered safe by some but is under ongoing review by the FDA since its introduction around the 1960's and carries a label of caution. Health Canada's review concludes "that Triclosan is not harmful to human health but can cause harm to the environment when used in significant amounts. This preliminary assessment confirms that Canadians can continue to safely use products such as toothpaste, shampoo and soap containing Triclosan

      In September 2016, the FDA announced that effective September 2017, it would prohibit the sale of "consumer antiseptic washes" containing Triclosan or 18 other ingredients marketed as antimicrobial due to FDA findings of the lack of efficacy in these products. Once again motivated motivated by dumb special interest groups with little science to back their beliefs against well thought out and tested chemicals. So when you ban a better product, its back to the nasty lye again and hiker funk. The FDA sometimes makes dumb decisions That green bottle in the middle of this picture can remove a direct strike of a skunk off any person or animal such as a dog, in one wash and you just wash off the Triclosan. If you absorb some thru your skin your body will urinate it out.

      Further Reading NPR
      Triclosan
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:

    • Regarding the use in healthcare, there are other products available that are as effective. If it proves to be unsafe, it's fine by me to pull it off the market. As someone who uses a lot of chemicals on myself and others, it's much appreciated.

      Another thought.. sometimes the FDA's data and info is provided by manufacturers, some of whom have a lot of influence. So although is was previously thought/"proven" to be safe, that may not necessarily be true.
      Lost in the right direction.

    • TrafficJam wrote:

      Regarding the use in healthcare, there are other products available that are as effective. If it proves to be unsafe, it's fine by me to pull it off the market. As someone who uses a lot of chemicals on myself and others, it's much appreciated.

      Another thought.. sometimes the FDA's data and info is provided by manufacturers, some of whom have a lot of influence. So although is was previously thought/"proven" to be safe, that may not necessarily be true.
      No! That could never happen in the US!

      Speaking of that...what the hell happened to my asbestos filter-tipped cigarettes, lawn darts, and sassafras tea? I can't find them at any store these days..... ;)

    • ScareBear wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Regarding the use in healthcare, there are other products available that are as effective. If it proves to be unsafe, it's fine by me to pull it off the market. As someone who uses a lot of chemicals on myself and others, it's much appreciated.

      Another thought.. sometimes the FDA's data and info is provided by manufacturers, some of whom have a lot of influence. So although is was previously thought/"proven" to be safe, that may not necessarily be true.
      No! That could never happen in the US!
      Speaking of that...what the hell happened to my asbestos filter-tipped cigarettes, lawn darts, and sassafras tea? I can't find them at any store these days..... ;)
      As for the sassafras tea, our government decided there was a dangerous halucinagenic chemical in it. If you want tea you got to dig the roots to make your own. I found some blowdowns on the trail last summer and harvested some root bark. Wonderful, spent my childhood making my own and had not had any for years.

    • TrafficJam wrote:

      Regarding the use in healthcare, there are other products available that are as effective. If it proves to be unsafe, it's fine by me to pull it off the market. As someone who uses a lot of chemicals on myself and others, it's much appreciated.

      Another thought.. sometimes the FDA's data and info is provided by manufacturers, some of whom have a lot of influence. So although is was previously thought/"proven" to be safe, that may not necessarily be true.
      Well they are attempting to remove it from soap - it is not unsafe, and to be totally honest most read ingredients. It will still be in toothpaste - not soap. And lye is far more nasty. As a country we can make personal choices... if you are worried there is Tom's of Maine... I will stick to Colgate. Do we really need big govt to make bad decisions on our behalf? Serious I don't like Lye..

      Here is the most popular Bar of soap on the planet....
      Sodium Lauroyl Isethionate, Stearic Acid, Sodium Tallowate Or Sodium Palmitate, Lauric Acid, Sodium Isethionate, Water, Sodium Stearate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Cocoate Or Sodium Palm Kernelate, Fragrance, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Edta, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Titanium Dioxide (Ci 77891).
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Wise Old Owl ().

    • Wow just found this


      COLGATE

      Colgate Total® toothpaste is uniquely formulated with 0.3% of the antibacterial ingredient triclosan to fight harmful plaque germs, which are the cause of most common oral health problems.
      There are more published, peer-reviewed clinical studies of Colgate Total® than of any other toothpaste in the world. The efficacy and safety of Colgate Total® is supported by more than 90 clinical studies, involving over 20,000 people, and a broad set of safety evaluations. Our research has been shared with regulatory agencies around the world who have accepted triclosan’s safe and effective use in toothpaste.
      Colgate Total® is clinically proven to work better than other toothpastes in reducing the germs that can cause gum disease. It is clinically proven to provide 12-hour protection against plaque germs that can lead to gingivitis, an early form of gum disease. Over 75% of American adults suffer from gingivitis. Plaque and gingivitis, if unchecked, can progress to periodontitis, a more serious and damaging stage of infection that can result in tooth and bone loss. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, almost half of American adults age 30 and over have serious periodontal disease.
      Brushing with regular fluoride toothpaste does not provide the antibacterial protection of Colgate Total® toothpaste. On the US FDA’s website, updated as of September 2, 2016, the FDA states as follows regarding Colgate Total® toothpaste: "For some consumer products, there is evidence that triclosan provides a benefit." The FDA notes that it has “reviewed extensive effectiveness data on triclosan in Colgate Total toothpaste" and that the "evidence showed that triclosan in that product was effective in preventing gingivitis."
      Additionally, only Colgate Total® toothpaste provides both antibacterial protection and direct anti-inflammatory action, which is notable given the importance of good oral health and the emerging scientific research associating oral health with overall health.
      A thorough independent review was conducted and published by the Cochrane Oral Health Group on the oral health benefits of triclosan/copolymer, the active antibacterial system in Colgate Total® toothpaste. The Cochrane Review evaluated 30 studies dating from 1990 to 2012 and involving 14,835 participants (Riley & Lamont 2013). The resulting data highlighted the many clinical benefits of using a fluoride toothpaste containing triclosan/copolymer and concluded there was no evidence of any harmful effects associated with the use of triclosan/copolymer toothpastes in studies up to three years in duration. Among other things, the Cochrane Review found that after six or more months of use, fluoride toothpaste containing triclosan/copolymer provided:
      • 22% reduction in plaque and gingivitis as compared with traditional fluoride toothpaste
      • 41% reduction in plaque severity as compared with traditional fluoride toothpaste
      • 48% reduction in gum bleeding as compared with traditional fluoride toothpaste
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:

    • Wise Old Owl wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Regarding the use in healthcare, there are other products available that are as effective. If it proves to be unsafe, it's fine by me to pull it off the market. As someone who uses a lot of chemicals on myself and others, it's much appreciated.

      Another thought.. sometimes the FDA's data and info is provided by manufacturers, some of whom have a lot of influence. So although is was previously thought/"proven" to be safe, that may not necessarily be true.
      Well they are attempting to remove it from soap - it is not unsafe, and to be totally honest most read ingredients. It will still be in toothpaste - not soap. And lye is far more nasty. As a country we can make personal choices... if you are worried there is Tom's of Maine... I will stick to Colgate. Do we really need big govt to make bad descriptions on our behalf? Serious I don't like Lye..
      Here is the most popular Bar of soap on the planet....
      Sodium Lauroyl Isethionate, Stearic Acid, Sodium Tallowate Or Sodium Palmitate, Lauric Acid, Sodium Isethionate, Water, Sodium Stearate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Cocoate Or Sodium Palm Kernelate, Fragrance, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Edta, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Titanium Dioxide (Ci 77891).
      There's always chlorhexadine. It's used the same way as triclosan. :)
      Lost in the right direction.

    • TrafficJam wrote:

      Wise Old Owl wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Regarding the use in healthcare, there are other products available that are as effective. If it proves to be unsafe, it's fine by me to pull it off the market. As someone who uses a lot of chemicals on myself and others, it's much appreciated.

      Another thought.. sometimes the FDA's data and info is provided by manufacturers, some of whom have a lot of influence. So although is was previously thought/"proven" to be safe, that may not necessarily be true.
      Well they are attempting to remove it from soap - it is not unsafe, and to be totally honest most read ingredients. It will still be in toothpaste - not soap. And lye is far more nasty. As a country we can make personal choices... if you are worried there is Tom's of Maine... I will stick to Colgate. Do we really need big govt to make bad descriptions on our behalf? Serious I don't like Lye..Here is the most popular Bar of soap on the planet....
      Sodium Lauroyl Isethionate, Stearic Acid, Sodium Tallowate Or Sodium Palmitate, Lauric Acid, Sodium Isethionate, Water, Sodium Stearate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Cocoate Or Sodium Palm Kernelate, Fragrance, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Edta, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Titanium Dioxide (Ci 77891).
      There's always chlorhexadine. It's used the same way as triclosan. :)
      Never heard of it... guess I have to do some reading tomorrow.
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:

    • SandyofPA wrote:

      ScareBear wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Regarding the use in healthcare, there are other products available that are as effective. If it proves to be unsafe, it's fine by me to pull it off the market. As someone who uses a lot of chemicals on myself and others, it's much appreciated.

      Another thought.. sometimes the FDA's data and info is provided by manufacturers, some of whom have a lot of influence. So although is was previously thought/"proven" to be safe, that may not necessarily be true.
      No! That could never happen in the US!Speaking of that...what the hell happened to my asbestos filter-tipped cigarettes, lawn darts, and sassafras tea? I can't find them at any store these days..... ;)
      As for the sassafras tea, our government decided there was a dangerous halucinagenic chemical in it. If you want tea you got to dig the roots to make your own. I found some blowdowns on the trail last summer and harvested some root bark. Wonderful, spent my childhood making my own and had not had any for years.
      When the kids were young we were camping and dug some sassafras roots and made tea, I had 6 cups, didn't see anything though...coincidentally...heard on the radio on the way home from that camp trip that it was a carcinogen.
      I may grow old but I'll never grow up.

    • Drybones wrote:

      SandyofPA wrote:

      ScareBear wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Regarding the use in healthcare, there are other products available that are as effective. If it proves to be unsafe, it's fine by me to pull it off the market. As someone who uses a lot of chemicals on myself and others, it's much appreciated.

      Another thought.. sometimes the FDA's data and info is provided by manufacturers, some of whom have a lot of influence. So although is was previously thought/"proven" to be safe, that may not necessarily be true.
      No! That could never happen in the US!Speaking of that...what the hell happened to my asbestos filter-tipped cigarettes, lawn darts, and sassafras tea? I can't find them at any store these days..... ;)
      As for the sassafras tea, our government decided there was a dangerous halucinagenic chemical in it. If you want tea you got to dig the roots to make your own. I found some blowdowns on the trail last summer and harvested some root bark. Wonderful, spent my childhood making my own and had not had any for years.
      When the kids were young we were camping and dug some sassafras roots and made tea, I had 6 cups, didn't see anything though...coincidentally...heard on the radio on the way home from that camp trip that it was a carcinogen.
      Yea destroyed the Root beer industry, most of it is artificial due to a ruling in the 1960's

      Root beer is a sweet soda traditionally made using the sassafras tree Sassafras albidum (sassafras) or the vine Smilax ornata (sarsaparilla) as the primary flavor. Root beer may be alcoholic or non-alcoholic, come naturally decaffeinated or have caffeine added, and carbonated or non-carbonated. It usually has a thick, foamy head when poured. Modern, commercially produced root beer is generally sweet, foamy, carbonated, nonalcoholic, and flavored using artificial sassafras flavoring. Sassafras root is still used to flavor traditional root beer, although since sassafras was banned by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration because of the carcinogenicity of its constituent safrole, most commercial recipes do not contain sassafras. Some commercial root beers do use a safrole-free sassafras extract.

      Root Beer is known as such because it was originally made with a wide variety of roots including licorice root, sarsaparilla root, and sassafras root, among other plant ingredients.
      The last listed ingredient has been phased out from all but the smallest of root beer batches, however, as the FDA ruled the oil of sassafras roots to be a carcinogenic substance. As a result, modern root beers have artificial sassafras root flavoring in order to stay on the right side of the FDA and avoid poisoning their customers. Higher end root beers, typically brewed in small batches, use a special (and much more expensive) sassafras root blend where the safrole oil has been removed.


      Sassafras Tea Benefits
      Sassafras has a history of being a medicine with many uses. Primarily it is been used as a tonic and blood purifier. A tonic is a mild stimulant know to improve general health and mood over time. As a blood purifier Sassafras may help the body to speed up its rate of blood detoxification. Contrary to The tests done in the 1950s there is some evidence that Safrole may actually help to protect against cancer in humans since closely related compounds are known to do so.
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:

    • TrafficJam wrote:

      Regarding the use in healthcare, there are other products available that are as effective. If it proves to be unsafe, it's fine by me to pull it off the market. As someone who uses a lot of chemicals on myself and others, it's much appreciated.

      Another thought.. sometimes the FDA's data and info is provided by manufacturers, some of whom have a lot of influence. So although is was previously thought/"proven" to be safe, that may not necessarily be true.
      While living in Europe, one of the neighbors had a child suffering from various ailments attributed to the drug Thalidomide. This child was born without fully developed limbs and had easily fractured bones. This drug was widely given to pregnant women to reduce morning sickness throughout much of the 1950s and into the early 60s. The FDA was pressured by various groups to authorize prescribing Thalidomide within the US but delayed release mainly due to anecdotal evidence from European sources.

      To this day, no one has determined the number of still borne, premature, or handicapped children born to families throughout Europe due to prescribing this drug, not to mention the emotional devastion created by having to ensure lifetime care for a child unable to progress in life.

      By not succumbing to influence brought to bear for this release of this drug, the FDA spared countless US families endless heartache.

      Lest we forget.....


      SSgt Ray Rangel - USAF
      SrA Elizabeth Loncki - USAF
      PFC Adam Harris - USA
      MSgt Eden Pearl - USMC

    • Dr. Bronner's unscented baby soap ingredients: Organic Coconut oil, Organic Palm oil, Sodium Hydroxide, water, Organic Olive oil, Organic Hemp oil, Organic Jojoba oil, salt, citric acid, Tocopherol. This is the soap I use at home and on the trail, it comes as a regular bar. The skin is the largest organ in the human body, I don't want to smear chemicals on mine.

    • SandyofPA wrote:

      Dr. Bronner's unscented baby soap ingredients: Organic Coconut oil, Organic Palm oil, Sodium Hydroxide, water, Organic Olive oil, Organic Hemp oil, Organic Jojoba oil, salt, citric acid, Tocopherol. This is the soap I use at home and on the trail, it comes as a regular bar. The skin is the largest organ in the human body, I don't want to smear chemicals on mine.
      I've been using goat milk soap from Bend soap co. Just bought several lbs. in their bulk scrap sale.

      On trail it's dr bronners also.
      Lost in the right direction.

    • WanderingStovie wrote:

      JimBlue wrote:

      I use oil of peppermint soap. Bonners. It will take motorcycle grease off me. So I think it's good soap. I bought some small travel bottles to put it in.
      I will second the motion. The product needs repackaging. It is too easy for the cap to unscrew itself.
      I use the same, but I buy it on the large containers, on trail I carry it in old .5pz hand sanitizer container.
      Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    • WanderingStovie wrote:

      JimBlue wrote:

      I use oil of peppermint soap. Bonners. It will take motorcycle grease off me. So I think it's good soap. I bought some small travel bottles to put it in.
      I will second the motion. The product needs repackaging. It is too easy for the cap to unscrew itself.
      If you're looking to take grease off of yourself try this, rub the greasy area with cheap cooking oil until the grease is dissolved into the oil. Then add a few drops of liquid soap and rub that into the mess. Now rinse it all off with warm water.
      I found out the hard way not to use the expensive olive oil for this purpose. Kathy "explained" that to me at a very high decibel level the day she caught me doing it. Now we keep a bottle of the cheapest cooking oil under the kitchen sink for me to use when washing up after working on our cars.

    • JimBlue wrote:

      Sorry. I sold my motorcycle decades ago. I was just giving an example of how good the soap is. But my hands do get dirty when I check my car's windshield wiper fluid.
      Time to use degreaser in the engine bay while at the car wash.

      Lest we forget.....


      SSgt Ray Rangel - USAF
      SrA Elizabeth Loncki - USAF
      PFC Adam Harris - USA
      MSgt Eden Pearl - USMC

    • My wiper fluid fill up is off to one side near the headlight. I did have a steering fluid leak that suddenly showed up after a visit to the dealership. I was less than amused at the sudden $1000 repair they wanted to do. So I got no leak steering fluid and that dealt with it.
      --
      "What do you mean its sunrise already ?!", me.

    • JimBlue wrote:

      My wiper fluid fill up is off to one side near the headlight. I did have a steering fluid leak that suddenly showed up after a visit to the dealership. I was less than amused at the sudden $1000 repair they wanted to do. So I got no leak steering fluid and that dealt with it.
      And, when your pump's bearing gives out, you will still spend the $1000, except you might be stranded. New car's computers go into limp mode when the power steering pump fails. Once you turn off the ignition, if the fail code remains, it won't let you shift into drive and take off...tow truck time...unless you have a OBDIII code reader/clearer...

    • you must have a weird setup if you have to remove the steering wheel to get to the power steering pump. That should be like an hour maybe two job for a good mechanic. I'd go to another shop. For a $1000 you should get timing belt water pump and radiator flush and new tstat at a minimum.
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference

    • JimBlue wrote:

      not the pump. They said gasket at bottom end of steering wheel. I still got it to stop by using an under 5 dollar bottle of no leak power steering fluid.
      The gasket where the steering input shaft meets the rack and pinion assembly? Not a pump, but a far worse item to fail. The labor for a rack and pinion is about 3 to 4 hours and usually includes tie rod ends, as long as you've got the rack off....

    • ScareBear wrote:

      JimBlue wrote:

      My wiper fluid fill up is off to one side near the headlight. I did have a steering fluid leak that suddenly showed up after a visit to the dealership. I was less than amused at the sudden $1000 repair they wanted to do. So I got no leak steering fluid and that dealt with it.
      And, when your pump's bearing gives out, you will still spend the $1000, except you might be stranded. New car's computers go into limp mode when the power steering pump fails. Once you turn off the ignition, if the fail code remains, it won't let you shift into drive and take off...tow truck time...unless you have a OBDIII code reader/clearer...
      Is there a car that can't be reset by not disconnecting the battery?
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123

    • Rasty wrote:

      ScareBear wrote:

      JimBlue wrote:

      My wiper fluid fill up is off to one side near the headlight. I did have a steering fluid leak that suddenly showed up after a visit to the dealership. I was less than amused at the sudden $1000 repair they wanted to do. So I got no leak steering fluid and that dealt with it.
      And, when your pump's bearing gives out, you will still spend the $1000, except you might be stranded. New car's computers go into limp mode when the power steering pump fails. Once you turn off the ignition, if the fail code remains, it won't let you shift into drive and take off...tow truck time...unless you have a OBDIII code reader/clearer...
      Is there a car that can't be reset by not disconnecting the battery?
      I don't have to worry about any of this stuff with my wife's new car, a '78 VW.

    • ScareBear wrote:

      JimBlue wrote:

      not the pump. They said gasket at bottom end of steering wheel. I still got it to stop by using an under 5 dollar bottle of no leak power steering fluid.
      The gasket where the steering input shaft meets the rack and pinion assembly? Not a pump, but a far worse item to fail. The labor for a rack and pinion is about 3 to 4 hours and usually includes tie rod ends, as long as you've got the rack off....

      Just before this leak started they had the dash and steering wheel off to check my ac/heater fan in the dashboard. I think they broke or cut the gasket putting it back together. I just can't prove it. The dealership is in another state. Wouldn't be the first time someone thought they could pull a fast one and scam me for repairs that weren't there until they uh looked at.
      --
      "What do you mean its sunrise already ?!", me.

    • JimBlue wrote:

      ScareBear wrote:

      JimBlue wrote:

      not the pump. They said gasket at bottom end of steering wheel. I still got it to stop by using an under 5 dollar bottle of no leak power steering fluid.
      The gasket where the steering input shaft meets the rack and pinion assembly? Not a pump, but a far worse item to fail. The labor for a rack and pinion is about 3 to 4 hours and usually includes tie rod ends, as long as you've got the rack off....
      Just before this leak started they had the dash and steering wheel off to check my ac/heater fan in the dashboard. I think they broke or cut the gasket putting it back together. I just can't prove it. The dealership is in another state. Wouldn't be the first time someone thought they could pull a fast one and scam me for repairs that weren't there until they uh looked at.
      The gasket on the rack and pinion for the steering input shaft is at least a foot or two away from your dashboard and is only accessible from underneath the vehicle. There is no hydraulic fluid in the passenger compartment. All lines terminate prior to the firewall. The steering wheel input shaft runs from your steering wheel to the rack and pinion assembly UNDERNEATH the car and only THEN does it enter anything having to do with hydraulic fluid....

    • JimBlue wrote:

      I never said there was any fluid in the passenger compartment.

      And there isn't.
      If there was a hydraulic fluid gasket in your steering wheel itself that failed...then you would have a very bizarre power steering system. You couldn't have added anything to the power steering fluid reservoir(hydraulic) that would have made it past the rack and pinion. It is a sealed system. The only leak the could be related to your steering wheel is the steering input shaft. That is the physical device that actually rotates when you turn the steering wheel. It goes to the rack and pinion(or gear housing), which is mounted under every car on the planet. It is only where the shaft meets the rack is there any type of fluid seal. It fails. It can be "saved" for a short time by adding a sealant to the power steering fluid reservoir. I really don't think YMMV...unless its a Lada. I don't know Russian crap...errr...cars....

    • its a 2004 Kia. There is a small tank in the engine compartment to add additional power steering fluid. When I took the car in for oil changes they also checked other fluid levels. They had to keep adding to that power steering fluid level. Nothing sealed about it.

      They then told me when I asked about it that it would be a $1000 repair. I used no leak fluid instead. Haven't had a problem with it since. They apparently didn't like my fix and siphoned all of the fluid out and put their fluid in. I never took it back after I put the no leak stuff in.
      --
      "What do you mean its sunrise already ?!", me.

    • I never recommend using a "stop leak" fluid of any kind.
      Besides sealing up the leak, you never know where else in a fluid system it's sealing and blocking fluid flow.
      I do understand the difference between a $10 dollar bottle of fluid and a $1000 repair.
      The sealing fluid is a short term "fix" while the gasket replacement is the long term fix , and I believe, is a better value.
      If it were me I'd just let it keep leaking and adding fluid until I could get the problem resolved the right way.
      Just my 2 cents, which isn't worth very much anyway.