I think it is a bit overkill for a July hike. Yes you could get really cold weather but odds against that. What makes the Whites so dangerous is the hypotermia risks by unprepared hikers. Ie. cold & wet & windy. You won't be camping above tree line & wouldn't need it hiking. A good shell & and insulating layers are more flexible than a down jacket. What you used in ME should suffice in NH.

It was 25° and 30 mph winds on May 14th when I was on Lafayette.

frogg togg pants and top are all you need. cheap and very functional

Well Frogs are a good wind break. Please do not get the down at wally world. Fleece alone are best at 300 weight Polartec - not thin fleece.

I won't generate an Article on this. But Down has different properties you really do get what you pay for... I use several cheap down jackets... as you pay a little more - you clearly get better quality....

Low quality down is mostly feathers. Found that out the hard way.

You can buy a cheap down jacket from JC Penny in another month or two. They usually sell for $20, end of season sale. .. My wife did that last year. After a few uses she knew she wanted a higher quality one and waited for the Pantagonia sale. She ordered her new one last week. .. She likes Pantagonias colors otherwise I would have been able to talk her into getting one like mine, Montbell.

I'm waiting on JCP sale to pick up a couple. First thing I need to make is an under quilt. I'll have to go to WM and see what their offerings are. Tons of stuff to make out of the cheap jackets.

i only take a down parka in winter. the rest of the time i use an ems micropuff pullover,the whites can be wet and cold and down doesnt work very well in those conditions. with a microfleece and capilene, i keep plenty warm, and if its that cold, i just get into my bag.

Well RS made a decision... I have done the same thing... and to help Hikerboy out here is the old chart




Here is a few things to fill this thread out...before making a purchase...

Down is one of the most common materials to fill insulated jackets and gear. Down is actually the fluffy undercoating on the bird, not the feathers, and it is a lot of tiny interlocking fibers that trap body heat. Down has the highest heat to weight ratio of all insulation and is breathable, wicking away moisture. These properties make down a great choice for activities where we generate body heat, like skiing or snowshoeing. To trap warmth the down needs room to expand, this is loft. Never machine wash your down and always follow care label instructions. Down retains its shape and loft fairly easily and with proper care down can last a lifetime. However, when down gets wet it loses its loft and it also loses its heat catching properties. Additionally, it is also very slow to dry. We never recommend taking a down sleeping bag on a trip where it may get soaked, you will be cold! Down is recommended for trips where you are looking to pack light and stay dry.

So what’s the deal? Duck Vs. Goose

High loft goose down are very tiny fibers and is the warmest of insulation because it traps the most air. You will find high loft goose down in sleeping bags rated to very low temperatures and expedition-wear. Goose down is very fine and slightly less lofted. This is what we find in most down gear, and is less expensive. Duck down is the least fine down and less expensive. Essentially it will take more duck down get a temperature rating than goose down or high loft goose down.

Loft




Many people wonder what the “Fill” means on their sleeping bags. We see that an 800 fill down sleeping bag is more expensive than a 650 fill bag, but what does that really mean? Down is rated according to fill. If one ounce of down takes up 800 cubic inches than it is rated 800 fill down. High quality down has a higher fill power and loft, because the weight needed to keep you warm is less.
The bottom line is, down is mother nature’s best insulator. For fall/winter clothing and camping, down will keep you warm, is highly packable and super lightweight. Whether your jacket is goose or duck, you will be warm. But, if you are watching your budget or the forecast says rain, you might want to go with synthetic insulation.





The Game Changer?

I love down in almost every situation, but if it gets wet, you get cold. Up until now, most down products were encased in waterproof, or resistant fabric to try and prevent a cold river trip or frozen day on the slopes. But, new technology is now working to make the down fiber itself water resistant. Without getting a guest post from a nano-technology scientist, the way we understand it is, the down has a micro- polymer coating that resists water and skin oil. The coating is applied near the end of manufacturing after the down has been washed. According to Sierra Designs, this will keep your down dry seven times longer than untreated down. We have seen tests of the feathers in water – and they do stay lofted. If these new down coatings really do resist water and decrease drying time, it really could be a game changer!




Anti Microbial - Anti Sweat - Anti everything - Downtek

i have a big agnes bag with downtek.

i would never wear down to hike in.

A number of years ago I was able to get a Patagonia Down Sweater at a really, really, really good price from their web site. It was the middle of summer and they had some down sweaters in one size, and one color. It was the right size but the color is something I never would have bought, except for the price. It's a good addition and useful for summer time in New England. Makes a pretty nice pillow too. So I guess the moral of the story is that bargins in good gear are available if your timing is right and your not too choosy.

all of those pics are me wearing the ems micropuff.

http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=18055726&lmdn=Brand&cp=3707807.12019738.12019742

http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/mens-nano-puff-jacket?p=84211-0

Micropuff is a thin jacket with the same insulation as a synthetic sleeping bag - Primaloft is usually the fill.

HB I have hiked once in a bug out in winter in a non treated down jacket... it was heavy with sweat after 7-8 miles back to the car. I cant wait to try out the downtek version.

LIhikers.. I suggest down doesn't make a good pillow, unless its mostly feathers.

WiseOldOwl wrote:

Micropuff is a thin jacket with the same insulation as a synthetic sleeping bag - Primaloft is usually the fill.

HB I have hiked once in a bug out in winter in a non treated down jacket... it was heavy with sweat after 7-8 miles back to the car. I cant wait to try out the downtek version.

LIhikers.. I suggest down doesn't make a good pillow, unless its mostly feathers.

you will sweat. i find my downtek bag to have a "clammy feel", much prefer my other winter bag.
down is for camp, synthetic for hiking.

We are on the same page - I just test everything. - I don't pump out videos like Shug or have a EMS Dept Store in the basement.

Got to agree. It has to be Super Cold before you would ever catch me hiking in down. Base layers and my rain jacket is what I use for my hiking. The down is for camp and lunch brakes. ...It also makes a Great pillow if left in its stuff sack. .. I do have a down pillow made by western mountaineering that I would throw in the trash, but I want to save the down for DIY projects. Damn thing ain't worth two cents.
I wouldn't mind finding a plasma1000 on the side of the trail.

I'd also have to say I go with down because of the weight. I'm not a gram weenie but I have had three back surgeries so I do try pretty hard to keep my pack weight down. ... Once I make it past the first night my pack gets Alot lighter.

Yea I gave it some thought HB - when was the last time you washed it? If you haven't it would be clammy. Don't forget the tennis balls.

I just cleared the driveway in this down Dritek Jacket and although I am a little funky it performed fine.. its 32/18F out there and after an hour it wasn't soaking anything...

WiseOldOwl wrote:

Yea I gave it some thought HB - when was the last time you washed it? If you haven't it would be clammy. Don't forget the tennis balls.

I just cleared the driveway in this down Dritek Jacket and although I am a little funky it performed fine.. its 32/18F out there and after an hour it wasn't soaking anything...

i bought the bag at mtn crossings in march when i realized my wm highlite wasnt gonna cut it, and i sweated every night in that bag. its rated 18, but i swear its good down to 10 degrees.i took it on the overnight with lou last month and will use it on short trips when i know its gonna be wet out, but otherwise, i prefer my other bag.
as far as the jacket goes, my needs are different.if im only gonna be out for a few nights, down is a persuasive argument, otherwise i prefer the micropuff. i hike in capilene midweight, microfleece polartec pullover and marmot mica jkt as my layering system, and will add the primaloft micropuff for insulation when it gets real cold.even when it gets soaked, will keep you warm, and dries faster than down.i do not want to have to carry a wet down jacket, when i take it in the winter, its tucked away in my compactor bag until camp,

Also on sale here BB

http://www.landsend.com/shop/mens-outerwear/-/N-fz7

This is a good thread to me as I can guess I am surrounded by folk that have walked in boots before me. Thanks Storm!

WiseOldOwl wrote:

Well RS made a decision... I have done the same thing... and to help Hikerboy out here is the old chart




Here is a few things to fill this thread out...before making a purchase...

Down is one of the most common materials to fill insulated jackets and gear. Down is actually the fluffy undercoating on the bird, not the feathers, and it is a lot of tiny interlocking fibers that trap body heat. Down has the highest heat to weight ratio of all insulation and is breathable, wicking away moisture. These properties make down a great choice for activities where we generate body heat, like skiing or snowshoeing. To trap warmth the down needs room to expand, this is loft. Never machine wash your down and always follow care label instructions. Down retains its shape and loft fairly easily and with proper care down can last a lifetime. However, when down gets wet it loses its loft and it also loses its heat catching properties. Additionally, it is also very slow to dry. We never recommend taking a down sleeping bag on a trip where it may get soaked, you will be cold! Down is recommended for trips where you are looking to pack light and stay dry.

So what’s the deal? Duck Vs. Goose

High loft goose down are very tiny fibers and is the warmest of insulation because it traps the most air. You will find high loft goose down in sleeping bags rated to very low temperatures and expedition-wear. Goose down is very fine and slightly less lofted. This is what we find in most down gear, and is less expensive. Duck down is the least fine down and less expensive. Essentially it will take more duck down get a temperature rating than goose down or high loft goose down.

Loft




Many people wonder what the “Fill” means on their sleeping bags. We see that an 800 fill down sleeping bag is more expensive than a 650 fill bag, but what does that really mean? Down is rated according to fill. If one ounce of down takes up 800 cubic inches than it is rated 800 fill down. High quality down has a higher fill power and loft, because the weight needed to keep you warm is less.
The bottom line is, down is mother nature’s best insulator. For fall/winter clothing and camping, down will keep you warm, is highly packable and super lightweight. Whether your jacket is goose or duck, you will be warm. But, if you are watching your budget or the forecast says rain, you might want to go with synthetic insulation.





The Game Changer?

I love down in almost every situation, but if it gets wet, you get cold. Up until now, most down products were encased in waterproof, or resistant fabric to try and prevent a cold river trip or frozen day on the slopes. But, new technology is now working to make the down fiber itself water resistant. Without getting a guest post from a nano-technology scientist, the way we understand it is, the down has a micro- polymer coating that resists water and skin oil. The coating is applied near the end of manufacturing after the down has been washed. According to Sierra Designs, this will keep your down dry seven times longer than untreated down. We have seen tests of the feathers in water – and they do stay lofted. If these new down coatings really do resist water and decrease drying time, it really could be a game changer!




Anti Microbial - Anti Sweat - Anti everything - Downtek

I'm not sure what your referencing Woo, but maybe think about putting this in a article....it's article worthy.

]I'm not sure what your referencing Woo, but maybe think about putting this in a article....it's article worthy.

Well I think folks don't read much anymore, so forget the article for a moment.

Ten to five years ago a good down jacket for ski-ing was $300 made right here in the USA - now a better one is $150+- made in China... Sold at REI and LLBean...etc.

You only buy one for life.

Does that help?

WiseOldOwl wrote:

]I'm not sure what your referencing Woo, but maybe think about putting this in a article....it's article worthy.

Well I think folks don't read much anymore, so forget the article for a moment.

Ten to five years ago a good down jacket for ski-ing was $300 made right here in the USA - now a better one is $150+- made in China... Sold at REI and LLBean...etc.

You only buy one for life.

Does that help?

with regard to your decision to purchase, yes....with regard to this, No.
Well RS made a decision... I have done the same thing... and to help Hikerboy out here is the old chart

I'm not following you.

Wiseoldowl, how did the dritek work out for you during the winter??

You'd think that if you wash a down article in DWR treatment that the down as well as the fabric will become DWR treated.

A few years back I got a great deal on a Patagonia, down sweater.
I was browsing their web site and saw that they had the down sweater on a Web Special.
Only thing was they only had 1 size and 1 color at that price.
It was my size, and I've gotten used to the color.
It works good in camp, or around town, I don't think I'd hike in it.

The pants Im thinking about getting state that it is water resistant down. I wonder if that's the same type of thing as drytek, only cheaper?

tj maxx have $199 marmot down jkts on sale for $99. they usually have marmot jkts and fleece on sale at half off or better

The wife loves it so damn much she borrowed it to death. She LOOOOOOVES it. I haven't seen it in a while.



Please do not confuse a DWR with an added electron to down where it repels water. This is not a chemical treatment Dri down appears to be a super repellent based on tech from the America's Cup.

The wife loves it so damn much she borrowed it to death. She LOOOOOOVES it. I haven't seen it in a while.


I got lucky. My wife didn't like black. On the down side I had to buy her a new one.

I saw those, they also had another name brand for $49 that was lighter weight but not as good as the Walmart jacket I got last year, I checked to see if Walmart has them again this year but did not see them, I have one of those $199 Marmots but haven't worn it since getting the $18 Walmart jacket, really like it.

<br><br>

I went back to TJ max today while I was waiting on an oil change, those Marmot jackets are nothing like the jacket I have, don't know what insulation is in them but there's no loft at all and it doesn't really feel like down.