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A confession: I'm clueless about pack weight!

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    • max.patch wrote:

      twistwrist wrote:

      Da Wolf wrote:

      nobody should "shakedown" anybody. just because one hiked the trail does not mean they're an expert
      I don't know, I was thrilled to receive a shakedown before I started. It didn't mean I had to heed their advice, but it was good to hear it from someone with more experience than I had at the time.It's not something I push, but it is something I offer. Up front I let folks know that this is one person's perspective, they need to take or leave my advice as they will figure it out for themselves along the way. However, being one who sees the gear people throw around on the approach trail, I do think shakedowns done correctly to those who want to learn (like I did) have value if done correctly. And one word I would never use to describe myself in anything is "expert". I prefer the term, "permanoob" with ideas to share and so much to learn!
      i watched the video and there is absolutely nothing there to complain about. i thot you did a good job. and i guarantee the hiker is in 7th heaven having dropped 11 pounds! wolf's schtict is to drop a turd and move on. don't pay him any attention.
      question - the hiker was fortunate that his parents were there to take the stuff he decided to leave behind. how about the hiker who gets there via a shuttler? are you set up to return gear via ups like mountain crossings or does the hiker have to wait til they hit suches (first p.o.) or mountain crossings to take advantage of your suggestions?

      btw, the first things i got rid of was my water carrier and a candle lantern. i don't know if they even make candle lanterns anymore. i haven't seen one in years.
      awesome! Thanks! I'm still in touch with his mom about his progress. :) I'm having a ton of fun!
      www.appalachiantrailclarity.com - Life on the A.T.

      Sometimes you find yourself in the middle of nowhere, and sometimes in the middle of nowhere, you find yourself.
    • Mountain-Mike wrote:




      Something I find interesting. With the net & more info & video redily available. Gear in general has become lighter. Baseweight of hikers is lighter than 30 yers ago. COMPLETION PERCENTAGE & TIME IT TAKES TO HIKE THE AT IS STILL PRETTY MUCH THE SAME.
      Thanks for answering a question I've had for some time.

      Lest we forget.....



      SSgt Ray Rangel - USAF
      SrA Elizabeth Loncki - USAF
      PFC Adam Harris - USA
      MSgt Eden Pearl - USMC
    • LIhikers wrote:

      I purposely bought a 75 liter pack, and knew it would be heavy, so that I have room to carry some of our dog's stuff in winter. In the past I've actually carried 3 sleeping bags, 1 for the dog and 2 for me. Now that I have a real winter sleeping bag we'll have to see how things work out.
      The last Scout winter over nighter I was on, I brought the dog and a mat for her to sleep upon. However to no avail as she used me as her sleeping mat.

      Lest we forget.....



      SSgt Ray Rangel - USAF
      SrA Elizabeth Loncki - USAF
      PFC Adam Harris - USA
      MSgt Eden Pearl - USMC
    • rafe wrote:

      I'm down to about 25 lbs. total pack weight including 3-4 days of food and a liter or two of water. Wish I knew how to do that 25 years ago. It makes a difference.
      After viewing vintage equipment and until recently used by an experienced hiking partner, I'm not sure you could've found such lightweight equipment 25 years ago.

      Drybones wrote:

      .once a hiker is seasoned that 1/5 of whiskey doesn't seem that heavy any longer.
      Not to be picky, but your fifth is now known as 750 ml or if hiking with a partner a liter.

      Lest we forget.....



      SSgt Ray Rangel - USAF
      SrA Elizabeth Loncki - USAF
      PFC Adam Harris - USA
      MSgt Eden Pearl - USMC
    • I remember looking at backpacking catalogs in the early 1970s. While the prices were lower for the items I was interested in, I couldn't afford them. And they didn't seem all that light.

      Maybe if I had gotten interested in hiking again when I had my good paying job, I would have bought some of the better gear. But I was a stay at home back then... playing Everquest and going to the book store.
      --
      "What do you mean its sunrise already ?!", me.
    • Because I'm a relative newbie to hiking, I had the advantage of shopping for the newfangled gear. I did the research and bought the lightest gear that I could afford.

      Funny though, I've replaced almost all of it anyway. My only original gear is the tent and sleep pad and I'm replacing the sleep pad in the next year.
      Lost in the right direction.
    • TrafficJam wrote:

      Because I'm a relative newbie to hiking, I had the advantage of shopping for the newfangled gear. I did the research and bought the lightest gear that I could afford.

      Funny though, I've replaced almost all of it anyway. My only original gear is the tent and sleep pad and I'm replacing the sleep pad in the next year.
      I think that's unavoidable for a relative newbie! The problem is that you can't choose gear until you know your hiking style, and you can't know your hiking style until you've been Out There for a while, and in order to get Out There, you need gear. As long as your "starter" gear is stuff you won't swear AT, even if you don't swear BY it, you're doing good.
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.
    • AnotherKevin wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Because I'm a relative newbie to hiking, I had the advantage of shopping for the newfangled gear. I did the research and bought the lightest gear that I could afford.

      Funny though, I've replaced almost all of it anyway. My only original gear is the tent and sleep pad and I'm replacing the sleep pad in the next year.
      I think that's unavoidable for a relative newbie! The problem is that you can't choose gear until you know your hiking style, and you can't know your hiking style until you've been Out There for a while, and in order to get Out There, you need gear. As long as your "starter" gear is stuff you won't swear AT, even if you don't swear BY it, you're doing good.
      Starting out you are in sort of a catch 22. A pack shake down is helpful for a lot of folks.
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference
    • Now to figure out what to do with all the stuff that is too nice to get rid of, but to heavy to take with me. Confessions of a true gram weenie that does weigh everything. Yes, I am a gear junkie. Selling stuff is not easy without Paypal, no one seems to use checks and money orders anymore. I did donate my first gear to a Boyscout Troop, but they are looking for stuff that is kidproof not ultralight.
    • Dan76 wrote:

      rafe wrote:

      I'm down to about 25 lbs. total pack weight including 3-4 days of food and a liter or two of water. Wish I knew how to do that 25 years ago. It makes a difference.
      After viewing vintage equipment and until recently used by an experienced hiking partner, I'm not sure you could've found such lightweight equipment 25 years ago.

      Drybones wrote:

      .once a hiker is seasoned that 1/5 of whiskey doesn't seem that heavy any longer.
      Not to be picky, but your fifth is now known as 750 ml or if hiking with a partner a liter.
      Okay...what if I carry a handle, what do they call that? (BTW, didn't know what a handle was until camping with a bunch of young folks)
      I may grow old but I'll never grow up.
    • SarcasmTheElf wrote:

      Drybones wrote:

      twistwrist wrote:

      So glad you're one of the open-minded ones, Wolf. Thanks for spreading such cheer!
      He's the kind that would throw a Baby Ruth in the swimming pool.
      No self respecting hiker would waste a candy bar that way.
      That is the proscribed way to sanitize a candy bar after picking it up off the privy floor.
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123
    • Mountain-Mike wrote:

      I've never have been a gram weenie. I have weighed my pack a few times. When purchasing new gear I do look at weight. I am willing to spend some extra money to reduce weight, like down bag vs a synthetic one. Yet I have a hard time spending really big money to knock a few more ounces off it.

      I also don't fit in lightweight category since I will cook some. On a long distance hike I see food as one of my rewards. With cowboy Coffee & normally oatmeal for breakfast & a hot dinner, not FB cooking I still prefer liquid fuel stove. With a personal preference of 5-7 days between resupply I found it works best for me.

      For me I want to be out in the woods, not stopping in every town. If hiking with a partner & sharing gear, food will become more gourmet. Alone it is a bit more mundane but still substantial. I learned on my thru of the AT how important it is.

      Something I find interesting. With the net & more info & video redily available. Gear in general has become lighter. Baseweight of hikers is lighter than 30 yers ago. COMPLETION PERCENTAGE & TIME IT TAKES TO HIKE THE AT IS STILL PRETTY MUCH THE SAME.
      Actually, the completion percentages have improved dramatically, from about 10% to about 25-30%. Lighter gear is a big part of that, as well as vastly improved "infrastructure" -- more hostels, shuttlers, cell phones to arrange rides, etc.
    • escapee wrote:

      rafe wrote:

      I'm down to about 25 lbs. total pack weight including 3-4 days of food and a liter or two of water. Wish I knew how to do that 25 years ago. It makes a difference.
      rafe, can you send me your gear list? (or anyone with pack weight of 20-25 lbs for 3-4 days) ?
      Detailed list is too much work but here are the major items, from memory:
      GG Vapor Trail pack, 3 lbs.
      Tarptent Rainbow, 2 lbs.
      Mountain Hardwear Phantom 45 sleeping bag, 1.5 lbs.
      Thermarest Pro-lite shortie pad .75 lb.
      Kitchen (stove, fuel, pot, cup, etc.) 1.5 lb.
      Water stowage: 3 Liter platy bag + two 20-oz. soda bottles
      "Office" (med kit, headlamp, notebook, reading glasses, other small essential items) 2 lbs.
      Total clothing: maybe 5 lbs. max (varies by season)
      Food: about 1.5 lbs. per day

      For normal summertime hiking, my "base" weight is around 15-18 lbs. In proper thru-hiking mode for a start in Georgia in March or April, I'd probably be a few pounds heavier at first, owing to the possibility of very cold nights and some hiking in cold rain or even snow. Come late April or May, some of that weight can come off.
    • Thanks Rafe, Sarcasm, JimmyJam, Rasty, for the gear lists. Will compare them with mine soon.

      My pack is a Kelty trekker external frame to have the shoulder straps off my shoulders. But it's about 4 lbs though. It's comfortable until I bend down to pick something up or tie a shoelace, then it's unwieldly. Is there a lightweight pack that has the same off-the-shoulders feature? I've asked REI and we tried different packs and the external frame was the best.
    • escapee wrote:

      Thanks Rafe, Sarcasm, JimmyJam, Rasty, for the gear lists. Will compare them with mine soon.

      My pack is a Kelty trekker external frame to have the shoulder straps off my shoulders. But it's about 4 lbs though. It's comfortable until I bend down to pick something up or tie a shoelace, then it's unwieldly. Is there a lightweight pack that has the same off-the-shoulders feature? I've asked REI and we tried different packs and the external frame was the best.
      vargooutdoors.com/backpacks.html
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123
    • escapee wrote:

      Thanks Rafe, Sarcasm, JimmyJam, Rasty, for the gear lists. Will compare them with mine soon.

      My pack is a Kelty trekker external frame to have the shoulder straps off my shoulders. But it's about 4 lbs though. It's comfortable until I bend down to pick something up or tie a shoelace, then it's unwieldly. Is there a lightweight pack that has the same off-the-shoulders feature? I've asked REI and we tried different packs and the external frame was the best.
      Hmmm. That remark surprises me a little. If the ladder straps are bearing on your shoulders with an internal frame pack, either the torso is too short or it's not adjusted right. At least, I never noticed that my internal frame packs have carried very much different from my old-school external ones, until they are badly overloaded.

      Are you tall, or long in the torso? If you wear a Long sport jacket, it may be that a lot of "one size" packs won't fit your "all." (I'm about 6'1", and there are a fair number of packs on the market that are just a shade too short for me.)

      The other thing is that when you first fit it, you have to adjust things in the right order. Let it hang loosely from the ladder straps. Cinch the waist belt tight over your iliac crest. It'll feel weird if you've never had it properly snug. Your hip bones support the weight of the pack like a shelf. Next, adjust the ladder straps just barely snug. Then pull the load lifters so that the weight of the pack comes forward from your shoulders. Rather than hanging from the shoulders, it'll be pulling back against your collarbones. Once that's all balanced, fasten the sternum strap and tighten it just enough that the ladder straps don't interfere with the motion of your shoulders, and snug up the stabilizer straps just enough that the pack doesn't sway uncomfortably.

      If there's any significant amount of weight bearing on your shoulders, something's amiss.

      Oh, and for what it's worth, I have a few hundred miles on everything that I list here. I belatedly realize that I didn't mention my JimmyJam bear bag, my Sea to Summit pack cover, my Camelbak, my Sawyer Mini, my trash compactor bag pack liner, or a few of the Ten Essentials. (I was following prompts on the site, rather than my packing list.) I also didn't mention luxuries like my Sea to Summit bucket and piece of Sham-Wow.

      This was gear for a trip in the Adirondacks in October, where I got cold rain or sleet almost every day, but I didn't need to be geared up for full-on winter. The planned itinerary had one five-night food carry in the middle. (Read the journal for why it turned into a section hike - but I did finish eventually.) I've since replaced the cheap pack I was using with a Granite Gear Crown VC60, but the cheap one certainly held my gear to quite a few places, and I keep it around so that I have something to lend to newbies. My list is pretty middle-of-the-road and really a lot like what I see everyone else carrying.

      I need a summer-weight sleeping bag like Rafe's. Right now, I carry a three-season bag through the summer and as often as not wind up sleeping on top of it in warm weather. That would shave another pound off my pack. It's not been worth the price yet, one as light as his gets expensive, and a heavier one would be less of an advantage. In fact, when I look at his list, it's really very like mine except for that one item, and the fact that he uses a 3/4 sleeping pad. I've not taken that plunge yet.
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.
    • Internal frame packs take some getting used to. I didn't make the switch until 2007 or so. Yes, I miss the mesh against my back instead of the pack itself. But I don't miss the bulk or the shifting-around from the old external frame pack. The IF pack feels more a part of me and is far less restrictive, less apt to snag or throw off my balance.
    • Rasty wrote:

      escapee wrote:

      Thanks Rafe, Sarcasm, JimmyJam, Rasty, for the gear lists. Will compare them with mine soon.

      My pack is a Kelty trekker external frame to have the shoulder straps off my shoulders. But it's about 4 lbs though. It's comfortable until I bend down to pick something up or tie a shoelace, then it's unwieldly. Is there a lightweight pack that has the same off-the-shoulders feature? I've asked REI and we tried different packs and the external frame was the best.
      vargooutdoors.com/backpacks.html
      i really like the looks of that pack. and there is a dealer 8 miles from the house...
      2,000 miler
    • I measured my torso length and its 24 inches. Most backpacks only go up to 19" or 23" for torso length.

      I learned back when I started using an external frame pack, about early 1970s for short hikes, that proper adjustments is important if you don't want you back and shoulders to be in pain.

      Good comfortable shoes that fit when your feet swell are good for overall lack of pain. Bad shoes can made your entire body hurt.
      --
      "What do you mean its sunrise already ?!", me.
    • Rasty wrote:

      escapee wrote:

      Thanks Rafe, Sarcasm, JimmyJam, Rasty, for the gear lists. Will compare them with mine soon.

      My pack is a Kelty trekker external frame to have the shoulder straps off my shoulders. But it's about 4 lbs though. It's comfortable until I bend down to pick something up or tie a shoelace, then it's unwieldly. Is there a lightweight pack that has the same off-the-shoulders feature? I've asked REI and we tried different packs and the external frame was the best.
      vargooutdoors.com/backpacks.html

      AnotherKevin wrote:


      Hmmm. That remark surprises me a little. If the ladder straps are bearing on your shoulders with an internal frame pack, either the torso is too short or it's not adjusted right. At least, I never noticed that my internal frame packs have carried very much different from my old-school external ones, until they are badly overloaded.
      Are you tall, or long in the torso? If you wear a Long sport jacket, it may be that a lot of "one size" packs won't fit your "all." (I'm about 6'1", and there are a fair number of packs on the market that are just a shade too short for me.)

      The other thing is that when you first fit it, you have to adjust things in the right order. Let it hang loosely from the ladder straps. Cinch the waist belt tight over your iliac crest. It'll feel weird if you've never had it properly snug. Your hip bones support the weight of the pack like a shelf. Next, adjust the ladder straps just barely snug. Then pull the load lifters so that the weight of the pack comes forward from your shoulders. Rather than hanging from the shoulders, it'll be pulling back against your collarbones. Once that's all balanced, fasten the sternum strap and tighten it just enough that the ladder straps don't interfere with the motion of your shoulders, and snug up the stabilizer straps just enough that the pack doesn't sway uncomfortably.

      If there's any significant amount of weight bearing on your shoulders, something's amiss.

      You're probably right about the torso length being off. So it's back to REI for me. . . they must be so tired of me by now :)

      But I'm also going to try the Vargo ti-arc. . . .will give a report later. . .
    • max.patch wrote:

      CoachLou wrote:

      So, day 2 ready to leave Liberty Springs, this guy with a oddly packed kit, asks me what my pack weighs. I tell him "I have no idea". "You mean you dont know what you have?"I have no idea what it weighs and it doesnt matter." " What I have is what I need for this walk"
      i agree 100% with this philosophy!
      I third it..."I am what I am, and that's all that I am"~Popeye Doyle
    • TrafficJam wrote:

      Once I get my tarp situated, I might try a trip using my small, golite backpack. I figured tarp, sleeping bag, pad, no-cook food, water, filter, first aid, hygiene kit, 1 extra pair undies and socks.

      Not having hot coffee in the morning will be the hardest part.
      take pack of folgers instant and a chocolate instant breakfast and mix them together with powdered milk. Add cold water in the morning.
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference
    • NoAngel wrote:

      TrafficJam wrote:

      Once I get my tarp situated, I might try a trip using my small, golite backpack. I figured tarp, sleeping bag, pad, no-cook food, water, filter, first aid, hygiene kit, 1 extra pair undies and socks.

      Not having hot coffee in the morning will be the hardest part.
      take pack of folgers instant and a chocolate instant breakfast and mix them together with powdered milk. Add cold water in the morning.
      I can't drink powdered milk. :(
      Lost in the right direction.
    • TrafficJam wrote:

      Once I get my tarp situated, I might try a trip using my small, golite backpack. I figured tarp, sleeping bag, pad, no-cook food, water, filter, first aid, hygiene kit, 1 extra pair undies and socks.

      Not having hot coffee in the morning will be the hardest part.
      If just looking for the caffeine fix in the morning, try MiO Energy with your water.
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General
    • TrafficJam wrote:

      Once I get my tarp situated, I might try a trip using my small, golite backpack. I figured tarp, sleeping bag, pad, no-cook food, water, filter, first aid, hygiene kit, 1 extra pair undies and socks.

      Not having hot coffee in the morning will be the hardest part.
      Save a little of the bourbon from the night before to get you going next morning.
      I may grow old but I'll never grow up.
    • TrafficJam wrote:

      Once I get my tarp situated, I might try a trip using my small, golite backpack. I figured tarp, sleeping bag, pad, no-cook food, water, filter, first aid, hygiene kit, 1 extra pair undies and socks.

      Not having hot coffee in the morning will be the hardest part.
      I can almost make my 14 liter Golite day pack work. Almost.
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123