Espeycaver wrote:
Wait a minute you just said "must use canisters" so are canisters required or not?
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Bear canisters new ATC recommendation
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Not sure the ATC can "require" anything but I may be wrong. I just read the SMNF requirements. It says food must be stored in non pliable bear canisters. Then it goes on to say If you choose to use bags to store food it must be hung 12 feet...6 feet. Wait a minute you just said "must use canisters" so are canisters required or not?well this response is being attached to my post, not in a new box, technology. Guess I'm a stickler for words. Their website says "must" use non pliable canisters and "if you choose to use a bag". So that tells me the must is incorrect and in contradiction. But anyway thanks for the info. I have e-mailed the park about the water concerns.
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It is confusing. Time Zone and I have been discussing this issue. Basically, they are required…ish in some areas.
This is a Regional Food Storage Order
fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd1109565.pdfLost in the right direction. -
This has the Southern Region list. Scroll past the Page Not Found, the list is below that.
fs.usda.gov/Internet/invalidurl/Lost in the right direction. -
Espeycaver wrote:
Not sure the ATC can "require" anything but I may be wrong. I just read the SMNF requirements. It says food must be stored in non pliable bear canisters. Then it goes on to say If you choose to use bags to store food it must be hung 12 feet...6 feet. Wait a minute you just said "must use canisters" so are canisters required or not?well this response is being attached to my post, not in a new box, technology. Guess I'm a stickler for words. Their website says "must" use non pliable canisters and "if you choose to use a bag". So that tells me the must is incorrect and in contradiction. But anyway thanks for the info. I have e-mailed the park about the water concerns.
Note too that the canister must be commercially-made for the express purpose of preventing bears from gaining access to the contents. You can't just go DIY it with some pipe and caps at Home Depot.
Sad state of affairs, but it's how it is. -
My wife has been using one for a couple years now. She's been suggesting that I get one too. I figure I will. After all "happy wife, happy life". I figure that since we plan on hiking the southern half of the A.T. next year then I'll already have it.
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I read it differently. Must means you have to have a bear canister, which is not true.
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Espeycaver wrote:
I read it differently. Must means you have to have a bear canister, which is not true.
I can't speak to those. I was referring to what Traffic Jam lined to above in post #125. Those apply to "All National Forests administered in the Southern Region". And the term "must" is NOT used in that document w/r/t bear canisters. You can, for instance, store your food in your vehicle (option d). You can (top of p. 2, option f) do a bear hang, subject to certain minimum distance requirements. [And at the bottom of p. 2, it mentions you may be fined up to $5,000 as an individual and get up to 6 months in jail for violating the requirement (the requirement being, securing food in one of the approved ways).]
Are we just talking past each other because you're referring to "SMNF" and TJ and I are referring to "All National Forests administered in the [USDA] Southern Region"? -
All I know, which isn’t much, is that bear cans are kinda, sorta, maybe, must..ish, required for some places.
Lost in the right direction. -
It's just the way I'm reading it. When I read you must then you must. They need to change it to say you can do this OR this OR this. And if they try to cite me because they measured by bag at 11.5 feet then they have nothing better to do. Besides who backpacks with a tape measure?
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I think I'm referring to SMNF. It was a like someone shared.
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It's a weight and space issue for me. My drybag is 10% of the weight.
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Are the hanging cables in compliance for a drybag hang or will I have to run my own line?
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can someone repost the hang requirement? I can find that link or on the website. 12 feet up, 6 feet from a branch yada yada yada.
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One more question. Since everyone required to sleep in the shelter, who packs a tent?
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Espeycaver wrote:
One more question. Since everyone required to sleep in the shelter, who packs a tent?
I would and so should everyone else.
- You may get lucky and arrive to a full shelter thus allowing you to tent in the vicinity of the shelter.
- Circumstances -- injury or weather -- may not allow you to reach the shelter.
2,000 miler - You may get lucky and arrive to a full shelter thus allowing you to tent in the vicinity of the shelter.
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max.patch wrote:
Espeycaver wrote:
One more question. Since everyone required to sleep in the shelter, who packs a tent?
I would and so should everyone else.
- You may get lucky and arrive to a full shelter thus allowing you to tent in the vicinity of the shelter.
- Circumstances -- injury or weather -- may not allow you to reach the shelter.
The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
Richard Ewell, CSA General - You may get lucky and arrive to a full shelter thus allowing you to tent in the vicinity of the shelter.
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yeah I thought about injury but barring that you are required to sleep in the shelter, that's why you reserve it.
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Espeycaver wrote:
yeah I thought about injury but barring that you are required to sleep in the shelter, that's why you reserve it.
I’m non-confrontational and try to be kind and prefer to not make a scene so carrying a shelter makes sense. Plus, I’d rather sleep in my tent if the shelter is full.
When I first started backpacking in the Smokies, I didn’t carry a shelter because I didn’t have one but don’t recommend this practice.
Just some things to think about…Lost in the right direction. -
Right. I'm just thinking about the shelter and the fact the GSMNP website says recreational hikers must sleep in the shelters. AT thru-hikers can sleep out of the shelter. And you have to reserve your spot in the shelter. The number of spaces at each shelter is shown when you go online to reserve it. If its full and I'm in my tent out of the shelter and the ranger comes by is he going to fine me?
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I also agree about sleeping in my tent vs the shelter. I did the Roan Mt. Balds and stayed in Overmountain shelter with 20 others. OMG between the snoring, people getting up and going down the stairs to pee and crinkling air mattresses all night I would be surprised if I got 2hrs of sleep.
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Espeycaver wrote:
Right. I'm just thinking about the shelter and the fact the GSMNP website says recreational hikers must sleep in the shelters. AT thru-hikers can sleep out of the shelter. And you have to reserve your spot in the shelter. The number of spaces at each shelter is shown when you go online to reserve it. If its full and I'm in my tent out of the shelter and the ranger comes by is he going to fine me?
If you have a permit for the shelter, but the shelter is full (someone is there without a permit) you don't have to worry about a fine or any other consequences.2,000 miler -
The NPS page I found says bear canisters are not required but that pack, food, (and canisters if you brought one) must be hung on a bear cable.
smokiespermits.nps.gov/“Of all sad words of tongue or pen,
the saddest are these, 'It might have been.”
John Greenleaf Whittier -
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Feels like a dumb question, but does a Ursack count as a "bear canister"?
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No. Heres a link to the Georgia regulation which gives their definition of an approved canister,
fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5351875.pdf2,000 miler -
My wife has been after me for some time to get some kind of bear can.
So in preparation of our hike on the Great Allegany Passage I bought a Bear Vault BV475 and carried it. It claims to hold 5-6 days of food and it does if you squash it in. Sure takes up a lot of space in the pack and of course adds weight. I don't know if I'd use it on a long hike but am undecided as of now. A smaller one might be the way to go, we'll see.
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