Someone in the 'Pack Covers' thread mentioned that the discussion was straying awfully far from pack covers. So let me open a new thread, since people seem to be interested, rather than hijacking the old one
That's surely the conventional wisdom. And when I follow it, I wear a Champion long-sleeve synthetic T-shirt or an EMS TechWick one, and an REI fleece similar to yours. I own a synthetic puffy-and-hardshell combination that allows for wearing either layer or both togethr, but since I find myself breaking out the puffy only at stops, I'm finding myself appreciating my 800-fill Marmot down puffy and not having insane issues with keeping it dry.
The trial with the windshirt right outside the baselayer was after reading that Andrew Skurka weighs in with a contrarian opinion. And the ADK WInter Mountaineering School agrees with him, at least as far as keeping your insulating socks dry (pages 11-12) and keeping moisture out of the down of your sleeping bag (page 29). Skurka essentially claims that in cold weather, there comes a time when you will lose the fight against moisture unless you start keeping body moisture out of your insulation from the inside.
I've done the plastic-bags-over-liner-socks trick now on multiple cold-weather trips and it works. Without that trick, I've always had trouble with my socks getting wet, from one direction or the other. Wet liners and warm feet - well, I can change my socks at night, put the wet liners in my pack towel between my sleeping pads, and they'll be dry enough in the morning. (Or even dry enough by the time I get up to adjust fluid levels in the night.) Much better than getting the insulating socks wet and waking up to frozen boots!
I wish that I had tried a vapor barrier layer on my trip in the ice storm on Sunday. It was just a day trip, so getting soaked - but staying warm - didn't really matter. I got back to my truck, changed into dry clothes, and was fine. I had enough dry stuff in my pack for an emergency stop, but as things shook out I just kept moving.
If it had been a multiday trip, I would have been in serious trouble - much of my clothing wet with no way to dry it. It was close to "perfect storm" hypothermia weather: temperatures hovering in the upper 20s, with heavy rain and sleet in the lower elevations (snow nearer the peak). In all the sleet and wind, I wouldn't have had a prayer of staying dry without buttoning my rainsuit pretty tight. But with it buttoned up tight, i was either shivering in just a baselayer underneath it, or else comfortable in a fleece but having condensation problems out the wazoo. (What's a wazoo, anyway?
)
I would wonder whether I could have kept my insulation dry with a vapor barrier. A dry baselayer for sleeping would have been light enough to carry, and the between-the-sleeping-pads trick would stand a decent chance of field-drying it (well enough, anyway).
hikerboy wrote:
you need a base layer that will wick the moisture off your skin and transfer it to your fleece. this is kinda trial and error. ive finally settled on a columbia omni dry t shirt. for me it seems to do the job best. its thin and it transfers the moisture to my fleece which is snug against my skin to help transfer moisture out to the air.http://www.columbia.com/Men%E2%80%99s-Terminal-Tackle%E2%84%A2-Short-Sleeve-Tee/FM6093,default,pd.htmlTrafficJam wrote:
AnotherKevin wrote:
One of these years I'm going to spring for a Packa.
In the meantime, my ALPS Mountaineering pack came with a cover, and I have an orange Sea to Summit cover for my day pack. The ALPS pack gets lined with a compactor bag (which is also my Thermarest inflator for all but the last puff of air). The stuff in the day pack goes mostly in big Ziploc bags.
One thing that I tried the other day was wearing a DWR windshirt (which I picked up on impulse for ten bucks at Ocean State Job Lot, but it's the kind that golf pro shops sell for about $50) between my baselayer and my fleece. I was running the snowblower and shoveling the drifts for nearly three hours, and while my baselayer got all sweaty and clammy, my fleece stayed dry from both sides. Definitely an idea to experiment with further. Thanks to Just BIll on WB for suggesting it. Vapor barriers do seem to make a difference when it's this cold.
If the base layer's wet, does it matter if the outer layer is dry? I'm trying to understand cuz I have big problems with staying warm when I run. When my base gets wet with sweat, I get cold, even if my mid weight is dry.
That's surely the conventional wisdom. And when I follow it, I wear a Champion long-sleeve synthetic T-shirt or an EMS TechWick one, and an REI fleece similar to yours. I own a synthetic puffy-and-hardshell combination that allows for wearing either layer or both togethr, but since I find myself breaking out the puffy only at stops, I'm finding myself appreciating my 800-fill Marmot down puffy and not having insane issues with keeping it dry.
The trial with the windshirt right outside the baselayer was after reading that Andrew Skurka weighs in with a contrarian opinion. And the ADK WInter Mountaineering School agrees with him, at least as far as keeping your insulating socks dry (pages 11-12) and keeping moisture out of the down of your sleeping bag (page 29). Skurka essentially claims that in cold weather, there comes a time when you will lose the fight against moisture unless you start keeping body moisture out of your insulation from the inside.
I've done the plastic-bags-over-liner-socks trick now on multiple cold-weather trips and it works. Without that trick, I've always had trouble with my socks getting wet, from one direction or the other. Wet liners and warm feet - well, I can change my socks at night, put the wet liners in my pack towel between my sleeping pads, and they'll be dry enough in the morning. (Or even dry enough by the time I get up to adjust fluid levels in the night.) Much better than getting the insulating socks wet and waking up to frozen boots!
I wish that I had tried a vapor barrier layer on my trip in the ice storm on Sunday. It was just a day trip, so getting soaked - but staying warm - didn't really matter. I got back to my truck, changed into dry clothes, and was fine. I had enough dry stuff in my pack for an emergency stop, but as things shook out I just kept moving.
If it had been a multiday trip, I would have been in serious trouble - much of my clothing wet with no way to dry it. It was close to "perfect storm" hypothermia weather: temperatures hovering in the upper 20s, with heavy rain and sleet in the lower elevations (snow nearer the peak). In all the sleet and wind, I wouldn't have had a prayer of staying dry without buttoning my rainsuit pretty tight. But with it buttoned up tight, i was either shivering in just a baselayer underneath it, or else comfortable in a fleece but having condensation problems out the wazoo. (What's a wazoo, anyway?
)I would wonder whether I could have kept my insulation dry with a vapor barrier. A dry baselayer for sleeping would have been light enough to carry, and the between-the-sleeping-pads trick would stand a decent chance of field-drying it (well enough, anyway).
I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.
