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Wilderness Areas and Mountain Bikes

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    • The Ouachita Trail has some sections that bikes are allowed, but mostly on the OK and West AR side I believe. Have not ran into that many, but naturally prefer when just hikers.
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Astro ().

    • We have a MTB trail similar to the Bib. They cross at several points. Bikes are more popular than hiking but not as many bikers do the long distance thing.
      I have no problem with them but not on dual use paths. Bikes on the trail are usually fairly slow moving but still too fast for safe mixing with people on foot. Ditto for horses. I prefer bikes to horses. Bikes don't s#it.
      Resident Australian, proving being a grumpy old man is not just an American trait.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by OzJacko ().

    • i dont think in terms of leave no trace,more about mechanical machines in wilderness areas. horses certainly leave plenty of trace as well as eroding trails.but i had no problem with horses on the bmt, and i dont think i would have reacted the same way to mountain bikers.

      theres a lot of trails and carriage roads up in new paltz at minnewaska and mohonk, and bikes come up pretty fast on you and scare the heck out of you.
      its all good
    • LIhikers wrote:

      This past weekend we saw a guy on a bicycle in Harriman State Park near the Bald Rocks shelter.
      I have no idea how the bicycle handled those rocks, I'm talkin Mahoosuc Notch big rocks.
      Another hiker torn into the cyclist for riding in a no bicycle zone.
      All I can say is great balance. Seriously I cannot find enough evidence of what you are discussing.

      wow



      coming to a wilderness near you

      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:
    • hikerboy wrote:

      i agree with the concept that bikes are inconsistent with the idea of wilderness areas.

      hikerboy wrote:

      i dont think in terms of leave no trace,more about mechanical machines in wilderness areas. horses certainly leave plenty of trace as well as eroding trails.but i had no problem with horses on the bmt, and i dont think i would have reacted the same way to mountain bikers.

      theres a lot of trails and carriage roads up in new paltz at minnewaska and mohonk, and bikes come up pretty fast on you and scare the heck out of you.
      the general definition of wilderness areas, are area in which mechanized transport and internal combustion engines are prohibited. Any bicyclist that wants access to wilderness areas, cares norhing about preserving them . just self centered ahole.
    • Don't have a problem with certain trails being there for bikes, but if it is supposed be the wilderness and the focus is on preservation, they probably shouldn't be there. I know I personally prefer hiking trails without bikes or horses.
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General
    • Rasty wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      i agree with the concept that bikes are inconsistent with the idea of wilderness areas.
      I have a difficult time grasping that horses are ok but mountain bikes are inconsistent with a wilderness area.
      Having a decent amount of experience on shared trails with both, I can say that I generally feel safer approaching horses than mountain bikes. Horse riders are generally going slower I (and you can hear them easier if they are moving at anything faster than a walk) and seem to often be more courteous than mountain bikers.

      That is the extent of my opinion on the subject.
      Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
    • Rasty wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      i agree with the concept that bikes are inconsistent with the idea of wilderness areas.
      I have a difficult time grasping that horses are ok but mountain bikes are inconsistent with a wilderness area.
      Agree, horses tear the hell out of a trail, many of the trails in upstate NY were so bad from horses you could not bike on them...and it was hard to walk them.
      I may grow old but I'll never grow up.
    • Haven't seen many bikes on the AT or in the White Mtns.

      I've read Cookerhiker's CT thru-hike journal where he talks about bikes on that trail a lot. He did not regard them as a problem.

      I see bikes on local trails a lot, I've even ridden on some of them, but mostly I stick to roads.
    • This past summer I saw a few bikes on the AT, but what really pissed me off was the 4 wheelers were all over the trail in New York- especially where the 911 memorial is- they managed to ride right up to the top of the mountain. I never saw them but their ruts were everywhere.
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference
    • jimmyjam wrote:

      This past summer I saw a few bikes on the AT, but what really pissed me off was the 4 wheelers were all over the trail in New York- especially where the 911 memorial is- they managed to ride right up to the top of the mountain. I never saw them but their ruts were everywhere.
      In NY/NJ there is a very narrow corridor, and many blue yellow green aqua rainbow intersecting trails. Thank goodness, In all the time I've spent in NY these last few years, I have seen very little of this.

      In Mass. October Mtn. State Park, they need blinking yellow lights at intersections. The place is loaded with many different multi-use trails.
      Cheesecake> Ramen :thumbsup:
    • I don't advocate for bikes on all trails but I have no problem with bikes on some trails. Politics is causing a rift between mt. bikers and other wilderness users when we should be working together to preserve our forests. wildernessbicycling.org/bikesbelong/bikesbelong.html

      It's my understanding that trails primarily out West, that have been used and maintained by mt. bikers for years are being taken away in the name of politics and money. That is wrong. adventure-journal.com/2015/05/…lderness-mountain-biking/

      There is no research that shows that mt bikes are more harmful to trails than hikers, especially hikers who hike in rain and on muddy trails, which we've all done. I'm part of a FB cycling group and every single post is about trail conditions...because they don't ride if the trails are wet. It is an unproven assumption that bikes aren't good for trails. What is needed is up to date research on bike use and it's impact on trails.

      I sometimes run/walk in an area where there are a lot of mt bikers and they've always been polite and given me the right of way. Even after I have stepped off the trail, they will stop and insist that I go first. Sure there are ahole bikers, just like there are ahole hikers, but I believe most of them care as much for the trail as we do.
      Lost in the right direction.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Traffic Jam ().

    • One of my local haunts I like to hike at is a shared use trail and has quite a bit of riders on it at any given time, I just deal with it. But the first time I get run into will not be pretty, I can't imagine a rider hiking back off the mountain to the parking lot with half a bike stickin' outta there butt.
    • I've built and maintained both hiking only trails and multi-use trails in several states. As I've hiked and biked as appropriate on these trails, I have a vested interest in this issue. What irks me is encountering mt bikers on a hiking only trail and at times having to deal with a 'gtf' out of my way attitude . In fact once I somehow slipped during a close encounter with a banzai biker and my hiking stick went thru the rear wheel spokes. Needless to say there was a short- lived discussion .

      However many mt bikers are considerate of hikers,, but it only takes a couple of renegades to initiate an incident.

      Lest we forget.....



      SSgt Ray Rangel - USAF
      SrA Elizabeth Loncki - USAF
      PFC Adam Harris - USA
      MSgt Eden Pearl - USMC
    • This year's Cheaha Challenge bike race is over, I'll post a trip report later this week. The riders had to enter the park and go up the Mt. Cheaha road and then down the Tower road and exit the par, about one mile, twice during the race. I have maps and photos.
      --
      "What do you mean its sunrise already ?!", me.
    • I got a wonderful sense of schadenfreude once when I passed a MTB rider with a busted front wheel on a foot-only trail who said to me, "you wanna buy a bike, cheap?" The trail was NOT passable to mountain bikes. The strange thing was that he was walking AWAY from the highway, carrying the bike.
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.
    • AnotherKevin wrote:

      I got a wonderful sense of schadenfreude once when I passed a MTB rider with a busted front wheel on a foot-only trail who said to me, "you wanna buy a bike, cheap?" The trail was NOT passable to mountain bikes. The strange thing was that he was walking AWAY from the highway, carrying the bike.
      Short cut home over the mountains ?
      --
      "What do you mean its sunrise already ?!", me.
    • I have to admit - this is an interesting thread that was started with the best intentions...I don't give a damn if you decide to skateboard a trail... so long as you clean up after yourself. But hey I have seen new trails and covered with duff. I have seen trails with horses and clear damage. We clearly do not expect horse owners to doggie bag the horse poop. We live in a country where we respect each other and if you feel you want to do a trail on a knobby tire unicycle... I don't care. I hope you have your insurance paid up and respectably - when you get rescued locally with a helicopter after a fail you have the insurance to pay for your consequences of failure. Most don't. As for the wear of the trail and fixing it.... lost cause. Seen some OMG moments. and most of it was caused by Jeeps in a rescue situation...


      Oh those OMG moments... a Cesna crashing on top of the Yellowstone waterfall - just a few inches from the edge.. what a rescue and clean up.... My dad caught it on 8 mm.
      Be wise enough to walk away from the nonsense around you! :thumbup:

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Wise Old Owl ().

    • Wise Old Owl wrote:

      I have to admit - this is an interesting thread that was started with the best intentions...I don't give a damn if you decide to skateboard a trail... so long as you clean up after yourself. But hey I have seen new trails and covered with duff. I have seen trails with horses and clear damage. We clearly do not expect horse owners to doggie bag the horse poop. We live in a country where we respect each other and if you feel you want to do a trail on a knobby tire unicycle... I don't care. I hope you have your insurance paid up and respectably - when you get rescued locally with a helicopter after a fail you have the insurance to pay for your consequences of failure. Most don't. As for the wear of the trail and fixing it.... lost cause. Seen some OMG moments. and most of it was caused by Jeeps in a rescue situation...


      Oh those OMG moments... a Cesna crashing on top of the Yellowstone waterfall - just a few inches from the edge.. what a rescue and clean up.... My dad caught it on 8 mm.
      It wasn't my preference to exclude mountain bikes from the trail I was on, it was the landowner's. In any case, having the bike there was not only unlawful, it was stupid. The trail was not ridable. Which is how the wheel got busted in the first place.

      I don't mind horses (where the landowner doesn't mind). I DID mind finding unmistakable evidence that some rider had watered a horse right at a spring, when the side trail had a sign "No horses past this point" with a hitching post and a bucket there for the purpose. It wasn't that the horse was drinking from the spring, it was what was going on at the other end of the horse and unquestionably going to get washed into the spring the next time it rained.

      I also mind it when people posthole snowshoe tracks, or snowshoe in ski tracks, or snowmobile in any of the above. That''s a safety issue for those who come after. That's why most land managers segregate those uses.

      When it's a multi-use trail, I don't complain. When I did Bearpen Mountain in the Catskills, I just slogged through the mud pits that the ATV's had left. They were lawful. I wished that they weren't there, but I had no right to complain.
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.
    • AnotherKevin wrote:

      I got a wonderful sense of schadenfreude once when I passed a MTB rider with a busted front wheel on a foot-only trail who said to me, "you wanna buy a bike, cheap?" The trail was NOT passable to mountain bikes. The strange thing was that he was walking AWAY from the highway, carrying the bike.
      If I knew I would not catch hell for having the bike, and the fork/front shocks weren't destroyed, maybe I would take such a deal.
      I am human and I need to be loved - just like everybody else does
    • WanderingStovie wrote:

      Rasty wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      i agree with the concept that bikes are inconsistent with the idea of wilderness areas.
      I have a difficult time grasping that horses are ok but mountain bikes are inconsistent with a wilderness area.
      Gear that makes for faster travel can increase trail usage. Therefore why not prohibit light and ultralight hiker gear to reduce AT foot traffic? :evil:
      I'm classified as comfortably light. I'm OK with banning those ultralight hikers
      Sometimes you will never know the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
      Dr. Seuss Cof123

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Rasty: I am not OK with baking those ultralight hikers ().

    • Rasty wrote:

      WanderingStovie wrote:

      Rasty wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      i agree with the concept that bikes are inconsistent with the idea of wilderness areas.
      I have a difficult time grasping that horses are ok but mountain bikes are inconsistent with a wilderness area.
      Gear that makes for faster travel can increase trail usage. Therefore why not prohibit light and ultralight hiker gear to reduce AT foot traffic? :evil:
      I'm classified as comfortably light. I'm OK with banning those ultralight hikers
      Het Guys, Just because I carry Ultra light gear doesn't mean I cause more wear to the trail. It just means I can go at all!
    • SandyofPA wrote:

      Rasty wrote:

      WanderingStovie wrote:

      Rasty wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      i agree with the concept that bikes are inconsistent with the idea of wilderness areas.
      I have a difficult time grasping that horses are ok but mountain bikes are inconsistent with a wilderness area.
      Gear that makes for faster travel can increase trail usage. Therefore why not prohibit light and ultralight hiker gear to reduce AT foot traffic? :evil:
      I'm classified as comfortably light. I'm OK with banning those ultralight hikers
      Het Guys, Just because I carry Ultra light gear doesn't mean I cause more wear to the trail. It just means I can go at all!
      I'm sure we could rewrite the rules to exclude Uhaul and Tipi Walter, to reduce soil compaction, breakage of fallen wood, and other trail wear and tear. After all, roads and bridges have posted weight limits.

      And while we are at it, let's make hiking pole usage mandatory, to promote soil aeration, offsetting soil compaction. And make hikers wear cleats.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by WanderingStovie ().