scrambling has little to do with height and all to do with balance.lynn hill is all of 4'10" and one of the premiere rock climbers in the world.
weight centered over the balls of your feet, 3 points of contact.

TrafficJam wrote:

hikerboy wrote:

scrambling has little to do with height and all to do with balance.lynn hill is all of 4'10" and one of the premiere rock climbers in the world.
weight centered over the balls of your feet, 3 points of contact.

It seems like there's no place to put my feet and I can't step up high enough so I end up pulling myself up with my elbows and hands. The same thing when I'm descending...I have to sit on my butt and slide.

you want to keep your hands in front of you, and not reaching up, every time you stretch, you bring yourself in too close to the wall, and you'll start to slip.you sometimes may need to traverse to one side or another to find your next foothold, but the key is finding the foothold first, and then looking to place hands. best place to practice would be a climbing gym.

Going up is easier than coming down.
The 2 videos show totally different footwear. The 1st guy went for rigid boots, the 2nd with very flexible ones. I favour more flexible to allow my foot to "feel" the rock.
Mostly I try to avoid that stuff. I'm a hiker not a climber.
Most of my rock experience is large expanses of exposed granite, often shoreline. Much of our hills and coastline here is granite. Much more rounded like in the first video than in the second or like the rocks on much of the AT.

he could've just walked around the boulder.

If you scramble all the way to the peak is this called "Scrambag"

its called mahoosuc arm

ain't that the horrible truth....
=O

I am definitely more of a hiker than a climber!

i climbed everything when i was a kid,from the monkey bars in the playground to trees, buildings, walls, houses, whatever.i worked in an amusement park as a maintenance mechanic, loved climbing anything. started going camping up in the gunks, and me and my friends climbed the beautiful white quartz conglomerate cliffs that abounded. we didnt use ropes, didnt even know about ropes till we went to a different part and saw climbers all roped in. we kinda laughed and free climbed the same routes. we just didnt fall.after i got married i rarely found the time, and had grown away from my climbing partners, but when i got divorced i started climbing again, not just in the gunks but also white horse ledge and cathedral ledge outside of conway. even climbed right across from mt washington, a spot called square ledge, great exposure and awsome views.i still love the gunks though. many of the hikes in mohonk preserve have some great scrambles, particularly giants path,cathedral path, and of course the labyrinth.
scrambling across talus is mostly about smearing and balance.

Great view of the Prez's from Square Ledge & easy short hike to top!

I don't care to climb unless I must... and from 1958-1974, I didn't have to. If I have to for the BMT and AT, then I'll deal with it.

i found this footage of the amusement park i worked at

Scrambling......makes me think of the short section of the AT that Kathy and I did this past summer in southern Maine.

TrafficJam wrote:

hikerboy wrote:

scrambling has little to do with height and all to do with balance.lynn hill is all of 4'10" and one of the premiere rock climbers in the world.
weight centered over the balls of your feet, 3 points of contact.

It seems like there's no place to put my feet and I can't step up high enough so I end up pulling myself up with my elbows and hands. The same thing when I'm descending...I have to sit on my butt and slide.

Shorter hikers are definitely at a disadvantage, but for the scrambles on the AT it really doesn't matter that much. You're right that foot placement is key. Anywhere in Appalachia south of NH, the rock is sedimentary - mudstone, gritty limestone, sandstone and conglomerates. It grips like sandpaper, doesn't really get slick even when it's wet, except for a couple of ugly spots in the Hudson Highlands and Taconics. (Yes, Maine and NH are a different story.) If you smear properly, and it's not soaking wet, you'd be astonished what will hold a boot. Balance is what it's all about. If you have to reach far forward for a hold, then you have to stick your butt out backward to compensate.

If you look at photo sets from people who know what they're doing, you can see some really good examples of foot placement. Look at Justin and Amy in the Burroughs Range, for instance. You can see how her boot will hold the edge as long as she keeps body weight over it:
[IMG:https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3091/3183604309_8e41d5a8fd.jpg]Climbing Out Of The Col by Justin, on Flickr

You don't need much of an edge for your boot to grip. She's got full body weight on that one toe.
[IMG:https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3303/3183604743_6f0afd8c1c.jpg]Climbing Out Of The Col by Justin, on Flickr

Her right foot has a secure step, but look at what she found for her left one. Yes, that much of an edge is enough.

[IMG:https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3500/3184444922_32f42da84a.jpg]Typical Catskill Trails by Justin, on Flickr

And even in my avatar, you can see how I've got my whole boot sole flat to the rock with my weight over it. Backpack, belly and boot are all in a vertical line.

By the way, all these pictures are on a blazed trail. New York has some positively epic hiking, but the A-T ain't it.
HikerBoy, if you haven't done these trails yet, you'll love them. These pictures were all on the assortment of trails that make up the NY Long Path. The Catskill stretch, starting north from your beloved Shawangunks, would make a good short section for you. You're faster than me, so you'd probably do the hundred miles from Riggsville to Conesville in a week or so. That's actually a push, the elevation changes are brutal. Even ten-mile days in that terrain are not wimpy. Do the side trip to Kaaterskill High Peak, if you're up for a spot of no-blazing. It's got a couple of awesome views and the scrambles on the unblazed trail would be right down your alley.

Back to topic: If you really have trouble with getting a good grip, you may have the wrong shoes. See below:
On the subject of shoes, where there are two hikers there are three opinions. For scrambling, whether you go for stiff or flexible, you need softer, stickier rubber on the soles and rands. That's part of what makes smearing work. Unfortunately, shoes that are that sticky lack something in durability.

It helps to bring some sort of little stuff brush, such as the cut-off head of a junk toothbrush so that you can scrub the worst of the mud off before you start on a scramble. That really helps with getting the friction. If you're desperate, you can use a little bit of stove alcohol to soften the rubber. That's terrible for the shoes, so don't do it any too often, but it can sometimes get you that little extra grip in a tough spot.

As a weekender and day-tripper, I can occasionally have the luxury of bringing a pair of approach shoes if I anticipate a tough scramble. But most trail runners will work for anything that they'll blaze as a hiking trail, even around here. I don't hike a long way in approach shoes, they won't stand up to it. Plus, if properly fitted, they'll give you foot problems if you go very far in them. They really need to be snug. But they're great for tough scrambles.

In winter, you need stiff boots to hold your traction gear securely. But I'm not going to say much beyond that because if you're thinking of hiking in scrambly terrain in winter, you need a teacher. It's lots of fun, but it's damned dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.