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    • I am going stoveless again on my 3 day walk from Crawford to Franconia. I have breakfast settled (thank you WOO). It will be hard boiled eggs, pre-cooked bacon, and cold VIA coffee. Snacks along the way has never been an issue. I have my poptart early, gorp as I feel like it, and pepperoni stick thingies some time during the walk. It is supper I am struggling with. I have decided it will include tortilla wraps and peanut butter. I would like to make it a bit more full/satisfying wrap. Any ideas how to spice this up in a simple way. No, I am not bringing a spice kit and 40 tiny items. The wrap just felt empty and tacky. Any thoughts?
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by BirdBrain ().

    • BirdBrain wrote:

      I am going stoveless again on my 3 day walk from Crawford to Franconia. I have breakfast settled (thank you WOO). It will be hard boiled eggs, pre-cooked bacon, and cold VIA coffee. Snacks along the way has never been an issue. I have my poptart early, gorp as I feel like it, and pepperoni stick thingies some time during the walk. It is supper I am struggling with. I have decided it will include tortilla warps and peanut butter. I would like to make it a bit more full/satisfying wrap. Any ideas how to spice this up in a simple way. No, I am not bringing a spice kit and 40 tiny items. The wrap just felt empty and tacky. Any thoughts?

      I think you forgot the jelly.
      I am human and I need to be loved - just like everybody else does

    • BB, that looks like the sort of spreadsheet that I use to plan for a bushwhack, except that there I show compass headings, and include notes about the handrails, catching features, attack points and collecting features as well as the control points. :)

      The last time I went on a hike with Elf, he warned his wife, "Kevin's an engineer. His safety plan will be very thorough. Don't be alarmed at the level of detail, he plans for everything."
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.

    • AnotherKevin wrote:

      BB, that looks like the sort of spreadsheet that I use to plan for a bushwhack, except that there I show compass headings, and include notes about the handrails, catching features, attack points and collecting features as well as the control points. :)

      The last time I went on a hike with Elf, he warned his wife, "Kevin's an engineer. His safety plan will be very thorough. Don't be alarmed at the level of detail, he plans for everything."


      I use these to balance distance to elevation changes to camp site availability. If you wing it, you could end up with a very unbalanced trip. I find my walks are more enjoyable if the effort is divided properly. The maps to do not show the whole picture just by inspection. The bumps add up. I also take in a lot of side trails to vistas (primarily 4000'ers). I am always surprised by what the data reveals. My first guess as to logical breaks is seldom close to what I decide via these calculations.

      On a side note, if you would like to turn a sub 28 mile hike into a 41 mile hike and add several thousand feet in elevation changes, then follow me.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by BirdBrain ().

    • BirdBrain wrote:


      I use these to balance distance to elevation changes to camp site availability. If you wing it, you could end up with a very unbalanced trip. I find my walks are more enjoyable if the effort is divided properly. The maps to do not show the whole picture just by inspection. The bumps add up. I also take in a lot of side trails to vistas (primarily 4000'ers). I am always surprised by what the data reveals. My first guess as to logical breaks is seldom close to what I decide via these calculations.

      On a side note, if you would like to turn a sub 28 mile hike into a 41 mile hike and add several thousand feet in elevation changes, then follow me.


      I also like using Naismith's Rule. Here's a worksheet, filled in with the numbers from my last day trip.

      Terrain
      Kilometers
      		Math
      Minutes
      Easy going, e.g. roadwalk, bike path, bridle path, Jeep track
      0.7
      × 12.0
      8
      Well maintained trail
      15.6
      × 20.0
      312
      Rough going (e.g., herd path, sometimes obscure)
      0.0
      x 40.0
      0.
      Bushwhack in thick brush
      0.0
      ×120.0
      0
      Total distance
      16.3


      Elevation changes
      Meters

      Minutes
      Climbing, 500 m/h
      900
      × 0.12
      108
      Descent, 1 km/h
      900
      × 0.06
      54
      Total time - add minutes
      This is the time that will often appear in guidebooks


      482
      8:02
      Fit and experienced parties - multiply total time by 0.66. Always use the speed of the slowest hiker.


      323
      5:23

      Then add time if you plan breaks for meals, sightseeing, compulsive photography, naptime or whatever.

      I personally come in about midway between guidebook time and "fit and experienced" - I did the ten-and-a-quarter miles in 6:40, give or take a few. But that was with about a half hour for lunch and pictures at an overlook and maybe a couple more 10-minute stops for compulsive photography.
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.

    • Interesting. I will have to look at that. I have seen estimates on adding an hour per 1000' of elevation change to your normal walking speed. When I did Crawford to Washington I did just over 8000' of elevation changes in 8 hours and 45 minutes. That leaves me with a normal rate of hiking 12.7 miles in 45 minutes. :) obviously these things require adjustment to the individual. Thus the multiplier. I will have to look at your suggestion.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • BirdBrain wrote:

      (Creating an elevation profile in Google Earth)

      Quick version. You can change the color and thickness of the line. You can also make a crooked path via many marked points along the route. This is a useful tool if you do Blue Blazes like me.


      I've been doing my own maps for a while, using some nearly-professional-grade Geographic Information System (GIS) software, backed with an equally high-power GIS database, so doing profiles in Google Earth feels pretty ugly to me. It's really nice for visualizations, though. Using a tile renderer, I'm then able to load maps onto my phone that look like this.

      [IMG:https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3906/14822354558_3cbda58755_z.jpg]
      Map of the hike by ke9tv, on Flickr

      (which, incidentally, is the track from the hike in the last post). The stray 'parking' icon north of the highway and the 'trailer camp' icon near the north side of the image are data glitches in the asset file that I got from NY State. The 'trailer camp' should be 'primitive campsite' and the parking lot should be right by the bridge to the SW of it.

      By doing maps this way rather than scanning them onto my phone, I'm able to make them zoomable, both to smaller scale and to larger.
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.

    • AnotherKevin wrote:

      BB, that looks like the sort of spreadsheet that I use to plan for a bushwhack, except that there I show compass headings, and include notes about the handrails, catching features, attack points and collecting features as well as the control points. :)

      "


      I had no idea what you were talking about so found this...in case anyone else is interested.

      orienteeringunlimited.com/visualglossary.shtml
      Lost in the right direction.

    • AnotherKevin wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      (Creating an elevation profile in Google Earth)

      Quick version. You can change the color and thickness of the line. You can also make a crooked path via many marked points along the route. This is a useful tool if you do Blue Blazes like me.


      I've been doing my own maps for a while, using some nearly-professional-grade Geographic Information System (GIS) software, backed with an equally high-power GIS database, so doing profiles in Google Earth feels pretty ugly to me. It's really nice for visualizations, though. Using a tile renderer, I'm then able to load maps onto my phone that look like this.

      [IMG:https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3906/14822354558_3cbda58755_z.jpg]
      Map of the hike by ke9tv, on Flickr

      (which, incidentally, is the track from the hike in the last post). The stray 'parking' icon north of the highway and the 'trailer camp' icon near the north side of the image are data glitches in the asset file that I got from NY State. The 'trailer camp' should be 'primitive campsite' and the parking lot should be right by the bridge to the SW of it.

      By doing maps this way rather than scanning them onto my phone, I'm able to make them zoomable, both to smaller scale and to larger.


      I have a sudden urge to hike with you.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • BirdBrain wrote:

      I have a sudden urge to hike with you.


      Come join me for a section in October! I'm planning a thru of the Northville-Placid trail. Tentative plan is to leave Lake Placid late afternoon on the 7th (that's when the bus gets there, alas!) and arrive in Benson on the 21st or 22nd. Zero days in Blue Mountain Lake and Piseco. The trail is pretty remote (only four paved road crossings) but there's logging-road and side-trail access at a few points, and I'd be happy to help shuttle (assuming I have a car spotted in the right place!) if you'd help me with logistics.

      Edited to add: I know of two people from TOS whom I'll probably pass on the way. Cookerhiker is starting NOBO around September 28 and Algae is starting NOBO around October 11.
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by AnotherKevin ().

    • AnotherKevin wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      I have a sudden urge to hike with you.


      Come join me for a section in October! I'm planning a thru of the Northville-Placid trail. Tentative plan is to leave Lake Placid late afternoon on the 7th (that's when the bus gets there, alas!) and arrive in Benson on the 21st or 22nd. Zero days in Blue Mountain Lake and Piseco. The trail is pretty remote (only four paved road crossings) but there's logging-road and side-trail access at a few points, and I'd be happy to help shuttle (assuming I have a car spotted in the right place!) if you'd help me with logistics.

      Edited to add: I know of two people from TOS whom I'll probably pass on the way. Cookerhiker is starting NOBO around September 28 and Algae is starting NOBO around October 11.


      Alas, I have already exceeded my vacation budget for the year. That is why I am trying to do NH on weekends. I am planning a week in September to run to the Vermont border. After that I am going to have to be good at work for a bit.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • BirdBrain wrote:

      Alas, I have already exceeded my vacation budget for the year. That is why I am trying to do NH on weekends. I am planning a week in September to run to the Vermont border. After that I am going to have to be good at work for a bit.


      Yeah, that's a problem for everyone this late in the year, it seems. Oh, well, once you start on Vermont in 2015, maybe we can work out a time. Vermont is about equally distant for both of us.
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.

    • the spread sheets are interesting, but would never work for me.every day is different in terms of when i get my butt in gear, energy level. people would ask me in the am where i was camping that night, i would tell them i had no idea, to check with me around 2pm or so.i find that there are days i can just power through the uphills
      its all good

    • AnotherKevin wrote:

      BirdBrain wrote:

      Alas, I have already exceeded my vacation budget for the year. That is why I am trying to do NH on weekends. I am planning a week in September to run to the Vermont border. After that I am going to have to be good at work for a bit.


      Yeah, that's a problem for everyone this late in the year, it seems. Oh, well, once you start on Vermont in 2015, maybe we can work out a time. Vermont is about equally distant for both of us.


      I hope to do Vermont and Massachusetts in one block. I am frustrated doing NH in bits. Maine was so much more fun.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by BirdBrain ().

    • hikerboy wrote:

      the spread sheets are interesting, but would never work for me.every day is different in terms of when i get my butt in gear, energy level. people would ask me in the am where i was camping that night, i would tell them i had no idea, to check with me around 2pm or so.i find that there are days i can just power through the uphills


      Wimp. :D
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • BirdBrain wrote:

      hikerboy wrote:

      the spread sheets are interesting, but would never work for me.every day is different in terms of when i get my butt in gear, energy level. people would ask me in the am where i was camping that night, i would tell them i had no idea, to check with me around 2pm or so.i find that there are days i can just power through the uphills


      Wimp. :D


      actually i do quite a bit of planning before a hike, like to know where the blue blazes are, so i study the maps to get the lay of the land, read any guidebooks i can find to get a feel for the trail, and see where my resupply points are. once i actually hit the trail all bets are off. too difficult for me to keep to a set schedule, and sometimes i'll just decide to take a different trail.even when meeting friends on my hikes, i get stressed trying to ensure i can meet people on a certain day. i think planning is much more important on shorter section hikes with no resupply.
      its all good

    • hikerboy wrote:


      actually i do quite a bit of planning before a hike, like to know where the blue blazes are, so i study the maps to get the lay of the land, read any guidebooks i can find to get a feel for the trail, and see where my resupply points are. once i actually hit the trail all bets are off. too difficult for me to keep to a set schedule, and sometimes i'll just decide to take a different trail.even when meeting friends on my hikes, i get stressed trying to ensure i can meet people on a certain day. i think planning is much more important on shorter section hikes with no resupply.


      I plan these things in some detail, but often replan on the fly. Like you, I find that I need the detailed plan to get a feel for things. And in October, with a limited time schedule (2 weeks) and limited resupply opportunities (4 road crossings in 135 miles), I'm going to have to plan pretty closely, particularly since I'm just a clueless weekender.

      I'm also planning to avoid stress. If I lay out an 8-12 mile/day plan, I know that I can handle that without much trouble, and so I'll be able to hike without going crazy about the time and mileage. If I run ahead of myself, I'll have side trips (I won't say blue-blazes, the main trail is blazed in blue :) ) all lined up, or I'll just hang out and fish or take pictures or something.
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.

    • max.patch wrote:

      here ya go birdbrain...this is right up your alley.

      camelbak.com/HydrationCalculator


      It won't let me put in 12 hours of hiking. Only allows for 2.5 hours. Also, I thought it was going to peg before it hit my age. It told me what I knew. I don't drink enough. However, I think I drink more than most (water that is). The calculator is a good information tool. I believe very very few people properly hydrate on the trail. I try, but it is hard when you are changing thousands of feet in elevation and there is not water source for many miles.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • Stoveless food for 3 day walk through Pemis. Only need 2 breakfasts and 2 suppers. Still need to get wraps. I can see that this only saves weight on short trips. Stove is going on final week. In case you are wondering, that is grape jelly on the pill sized baggies.


      I need a better camera on my phone. That picture is so blurry that I think bigfoot is in there somewhere.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

    • except for those days when i left town with a sub sandwich in my pack, i had pbj every day for lunch. on a bagel instead of a tortilla. and a hunk of cheddar. sharp vermont if possible.

      speaking of mcdonalds...last time i was in maine mcdonalds sold a McLobster Roll. i love lobster rolls, but i bet the mcdonalds version was nasty. ever have one?


      2,000 miler

      The post was edited 1 time, last by max.patch ().

    • Not sure. When it comes to lobster, if I didn't kill it, I ain't eating it. WOO is the reason I am taking the breakfast I am. You are the reason I am taking the supper I am. I prefer tortilla though.

      Here is a lobster tip: If the tail isn't curled don't eat it. Lobsters go bad very fast. It is a temptation to cook a lethargic lobster because of the cost. This fact will keep me from eating lobster meat from a store. If you get a lobster at a restaurant and its tail is not curled, the lobster was dead when it was cooked and you are probably going to have a belly ache.
      Non hikers are about a psi shy of a legal ball.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by BirdBrain ().

    • BirdBrain wrote:

      Not sure. When it comes to lobster, if I didn't kill it, I ain't eating it. WOO is the reason I am taking the breakfast I am. You are the reason I am taking the supper I am. I prefer tortilla though.



      interesting. i did not respond to your question of how to improve on your peanut butter tortilla supper because my attempt to eat cold on my thru was a total failure. i don't mind eating cold oatmeal or cereal for breakfast. i don't mind eating pbj for lunch. but i totally missed having a hot supper. i mailed my stove a couple weeks ahead in new england as an experiment and i was very happy when i caught up to it.

      i will be interested in your evaluation of breakfast. i don't eat a lot of bacon for health reasons, but i love the taste of hot, crispy bacon. the thot of eating pre-cooked room temperature bacon does not sound appetizing to me at all. although if i never try it i'll never know.
      2,000 miler