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Common first aid knowledge needed on the trail??

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    • TrafficJam wrote:

      Before anyone asks... :)
      Dependent lividity is a pooling of the blood in the dependent part of the body causing a bruised/purple appearance because the heart is no longer working.
      It could also be the term for when your teenage child gets really angry at you. :D
      Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
    • TrafficJam wrote:

      Before anyone asks... :)
      Dependent lividity is a pooling of the blood in the dependent part of the body causing a bruised/purple appearance because the heart is no longer working.
      I actually knew this one after doing some recent research on the subject because of a missing fallen hiker, but chose to keep those comments to myself, leaving it to the professionals to sort things out.
    • TrafficJam wrote:


      I don't know about tourniquets. Don't do CPR in the wilderness if...
      • There's no sign of life
      • It puts the rescuer in danger
      • There's dependent lividity
      • There's an obvious fatal wound
      • The chest is frozen
      • There's a written DNR
      CPR is discontinued after 30 minutes.

      (Source is Wilderness First Responder, 3rd ed, Buck Tilton. I've been studying to prep for a WFR for healthcare professionals course.)

      Yeah - I said 'CPR if indicated' without going into a list of indications and contraindications. You expanded on the contraindications.

      The remark about tourniquets was hyperbole - but they did try that for a few decades of the last century. Back when what they had for CHS were oxygen, morphine, theophylline, digitalis and tourniquets. Barbaric. Lasix, beta blockers and modern inotropes work one heck of a lot better.

      (Interestingly, CHF is commoner now than then, but that's because back then, you didn't have people walking around who had had five MI's.)
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.
    • On my first two AT trips I took my (at the time) 10 yr old son with me (Springer Mtn-Neel Gap, Neel Gap - Dicks Creek Gap). I never really hiked serious mountains, so I did not know what to expect and at that time he was excited to go. Looking back if I had a heart attack or something it might have left him with a traumatic experience in addition to loosing his father. So perhaps not the best idea. :huh:

      But now I just go and plan for the best, and try to make the most out of of everyday. :)
      The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
      Richard Ewell, CSA General
    • OzJacko wrote:

      What to do if someone ingests alcohol fuel thinking it's water - has happened.

      Well, it depends.
      If its methanol, Ive heard basically get them drunk on ethanol
      The ethanol is preferentially absorbed by the body, preventing methanol from being

      I imagine SLX which is 50/50 has a built in safety compared to HEET.

      Research this before doing it. I have heard that this is what some ER will do for methanol ingestion. Heard. Hearsay. Im not a poision control expert.
    • muddywaters wrote:

      OzJacko wrote:

      What to do if someone ingests alcohol fuel thinking it's water - has happened.
      Well, it depends.
      If its methanol, Ive heard basically get them drunk on ethanol
      The ethanol is preferentially absorbed by the body, preventing methanol from being

      I imagine SLX which is 50/50 has a built in safety compared to HEET.

      Research this before doing it. I have heard that this is what some ER will do for methanol ingestion. Heard. Hearsay. Im not a poision control expert.
      I'd lay em down gently, stick two twigs in the nose for a pot stand, tell open wide, light, and put on a pot of coffee.
    • muddywaters wrote:

      OzJacko wrote:

      What to do if someone ingests alcohol fuel thinking it's water - has happened.
      Well, it depends.
      If its methanol, Ive heard basically get them drunk on ethanol
      The ethanol is preferentially absorbed by the body, preventing methanol from being

      I imagine SLX which is 50/50 has a built in safety compared to HEET.

      Research this before doing it. I have heard that this is what some ER will do for methanol ingestion. Heard. Hearsay. Im not a poision control expert.
      It's done if fomepizole isn't available. It requires keeping the patient quite drunk for quite a long time - usually days. It often requires IV administration of the ethanol because staying that drunk has most people unable to tolerate drinking more. In any case, the patient has to be in hospital getting massive doses of bicarbonate IV to correct metabolic acidosis and likely getting dialysis to speed the elimination.

      I can't imagine accidental ingestion of a significant amount. A few drops ain't gonna kill you, and the stuff surely doesn't taste at all like water.
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.
    • socks wrote:

      muddywaters wrote:

      OzJacko wrote:

      What to do if someone ingests alcohol fuel thinking it's water - has happened.
      Well, it depends.If its methanol, Ive heard basically get them drunk on ethanol
      The ethanol is preferentially absorbed by the body, preventing methanol from being

      I imagine SLX which is 50/50 has a built in safety compared to HEET.

      Research this before doing it. I have heard that this is what some ER will do for methanol ingestion. Heard. Hearsay. Im not a poision control expert.
      I'd lay em down gently, stick two twigs in the nose for a pot stand, tell open wide, light, and put on a pot of coffee.
      I can't stop laughing.
      Lost in the right direction.
    • TrafficJam wrote:

      socks wrote:

      muddywaters wrote:

      OzJacko wrote:

      What to do if someone ingests alcohol fuel thinking it's water - has happened.
      Well, it depends.If its methanol, Ive heard basically get them drunk on ethanolThe ethanol is preferentially absorbed by the body, preventing methanol from being

      I imagine SLX which is 50/50 has a built in safety compared to HEET.

      Research this before doing it. I have heard that this is what some ER will do for methanol ingestion. Heard. Hearsay. Im not a poision control expert.
      I'd lay em down gently, stick two twigs in the nose for a pot stand, tell open wide, light, and put on a pot of coffee.
      I can't stop laughing.
      ...and that my dear has never hurt a soul. :)
    • AnotherKevin wrote:

      Astro wrote:

      Just another reason I am glad I use a Jet Boil. :)
      Let Elf tell you his story of putting the wrong fuel in an alcohol stove. :)
      I'm not typing all of that out again.

      So here it is copied directly from my original post on TOS:


      The first ever overnight I did as an adult had a memorable experience. My buddy and I had just dropped a good chunk of money buying gear for backpacking even though we couldn't afford it, in order to make ends need and still hike, my buddy who had no experience made his own soda can alcohol stove for the trip.

      I was skeptical at first, but he tried it out in his kitchen and the soda can stove worked well, it boiled water quick enough and was practically free, so I agreed to use it. He even bought a MSR backpackers pot to go with the stove.

      On our first day out we made it seven miles ( a big deal on your first trip wearing a pack in over a decade). We got to the campsite and I proceeded to make dinner. I removed the stove that was nestled in the new cookpot, lit it with the denatured alcohol I bought and made couscous.

      The first few bites were okay, but then I accidentally took a bite from the part that was at the bottom of the cookpot and my mouth exploded in pain and sent signals to my brain that we were under attack. I instantly turned green and without consciously knowing what happened I ran close to the edge of the tent site and spit out everything in my mouth, replacing it with dry heaving. Not knowing what happened, I unsuccessfully tried to rinse my mouth out as my very concerned hiking buddy tried to see if he could help. He said so something to the effect of "I've never had couscous before but this tastes terrible". To which I responded that I ate the stuff all the time and that this must save been contaminated.

      After a brief discussion, the truth came out. It turns out that my buddy was too lazy to buy proper cooking alcohol when testing his stove. Instead he grabbed the only flammable liquid he had available, his girlfriend's nail polish remover, and used that for his first few trial runs. The problem is that nail polish remover does not fully burn down and instead leaves a residue that tastes something like rocket fuel. Turns out that since he hadn't washed the stove before putting it inside the cookpot, all the residue was shaken out into the cookpot.
      Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Sarcasmtheelf ().

    • SarcasmTheElf wrote:

      I'm not typing all of that out again.So here it is copied directly from my original post on TOS:

      Sarcasm the elf wrote:

      The first ever overnight I did as an adult had a memorable experience. My buddy and I had just dropped a good chunk of money buying gear for backpacking even though we couldn't afford it, in order to make ends need and still hike, my buddy who had no experience made his own soda can alcohol stove for the trip.

      I was skeptical at first, but he tried it out in his kitchen and the soda can stove worked well, it boiled water quick enough and was practically free, so I agreed to use it. He even bought a MSR backpackers pot to go with the stove.

      On our first day out we made it seven miles ( a big deal on your first trip wearing a pack in over a decade). We got to the campsite and I proceeded to make dinner. I removed the stove that was nestled in the new cookpot, lit it with the denatured alcohol I bought and made couscous.

      The first few bites were okay, but then I accidentally took a bite from the part that was at the bottom of the cookpot and my mouth exploded in pain and sent signals to my brain that we were under attack. I instantly turned green and without consciously knowing what happened I ran close to the edge of the tent site and spit out everything in my mouth, replacing it with dry heaving. Not knowing what happened, I unsuccessfully tried to rinse my mouth out as my very concerned hiking buddy tried to see if he could help. He said so something to the effect of "I've never had couscous before but this tastes terrible". To which I responded that I ate the stuff all the time and that this must save been contaminated.

      After a brief discussion, the truth came out. It turns out that my buddy was too lazy to buy proper cooking alcohol when testing his stove. Instead he grabbed the only flammable liquid he had available, his girlfriend's nail polish remover, and used that for his first few trial runs. The problem is that nail polish remover does not fully burn down and instead leaves a residue that tastes something like rocket fuel. Turns out that since he hadn't washed the stove before putting it inside the cookpot, all the residue was shaken out into the cookpot.


      FTFY.
      I'm not lost. I know where I am. I'm right here.
    • SarcasmTheElf wrote:

      max.patch wrote:

      i boiled white gas for coffee but luckily a fireball ensued before anyone could drink it.
      "Luckily a fireball ensued."
      I just don't see that phrase used nearly as often as I would like.
      years ago we were dumb enough to drink flaming shots of grain alcohol. The secret is not to breathe when you do it. I was smart enough not to try it. A friend wasn't and got scared as he was tossing it down- he had a moustache and I mean had- he panicked and blew outward. A fireball ensued he burned his moustache off got second degree burns on his lips. You should have heard the ER people "you were doing what?????"
      "Dazed and Confused"
      Recycle, re-use, re-purpose
      Plant a tree
      Take a kid hiking
      Make a difference
    • SarcasmTheElf wrote:

      AnotherKevin wrote:

      Astro wrote:

      Just another reason I am glad I use a Jet Boil. :)
      Let Elf tell you his story of putting the wrong fuel in an alcohol stove. :)
      I'm not typing all of that out again.
      So here it is copied directly from my original post on TOS:

      The first ever overnight I did as an adult had a memorable experience. My buddy and I had just dropped a good chunk of money buying gear for backpacking even though we couldn't afford it, in order to make ends need and still hike, my buddy who had no experience made his own soda can alcohol stove for the trip.
      <br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-style: italic; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-box-shadow: none !important;" ><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-style: italic; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-box-shadow: none !important;">I was skeptical at first, but he tried it out in his kitchen and the soda can stove worked well, it boiled water quick enough and was practically free, so I agreed to use it. He even bought a MSR backpackers pot to go with the stove.<br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-style: italic; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-box-shadow: none !important;"><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-style: italic; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-box-shadow: none !important;"><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-style: italic; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-box-shadow: none !important;">On our first day out we made it seven miles ( a big deal on your first trip wearing a pack in over a decade). We got to the campsite and I proceeded to make dinner. I removed the stove that was nestled in the new cookpot, lit it with the denatured alcohol I bought and made couscous. <br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-style: italic; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-box-shadow: none !important;"><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-style: italic; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-box-shadow: none !important;"><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-style: italic; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-box-shadow: none !important;">The first few bites were okay, but then I accidentally took a bite from the part that was at the bottom of the cookpot and my mouth exploded in pain and sent signals to my brain that we were under attack. I instantly turned green and without consciously knowing what happened I ran close to the edge of the tent site and spit out everything in my mouth, replacing it with dry heaving. Not knowing what happened, I unsuccessfully tried to rinse my mouth out as my very concerned hiking buddy tried to see if he could help. He said so something to the effect of "I've never had couscous before but this tastes terrible". To which I responded that I ate the stuff all the time and that this must save been contaminated. <br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-style: italic; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-box-shadow: none !important;"><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-style: italic; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-box-shadow: none !important;"><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-style: italic; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-box-shadow: none !important;">After a brief discussion, the truth came out. It turns out that my buddy was too lazy to buy proper cooking alcohol when testing his stove. Instead he grabbed the only flammable liquid he had available, his girlfriend's nail polish remover, and used that for his first few trial runs. The problem is that nail polish remover does not fully burn down and instead leaves a residue that tastes something like rocket fuel. Turns out that since he hadn't washed the stove before putting it inside the cookpot, all the residue was shaken out into the cookpot.
      Couscous Flambeau...berry interesting.
    • muddywaters wrote:

      AnotherKevin wrote:

      muddywaters wrote:

      I think about 25 milliliters a good mouthful of methanol can kill you
      Indeed, but who is going to take a swig from a fuel bottle and not spit it out instantly? And immediately grab the correct bottle and rinse their mouth multiple times.
      who else? The same folks that do most of the dumb stuff. People drinking or drugging.
      I've been so thirsty that I quickly swallowed half a bottle of H2O before tasting it. Admittedly, I'm pretty dumb. :)
      Lost in the right direction.
    • Back when I was in the US Navy, we pulled into the port for Athens, Pireaus probably misspelled, and took a nice day tour. During the day tour the guide mentoned the Daphne Wine Festival. A wine tasting. Three of the guys went to it. The police brought them back. When asked about charages against them, the Greek police said it happens to everyone. There were 25-28 vats, thousands of liters per vat. You paid about a dollar for a one liter ceramic jug to use as your drinking vessel.

      A couple of days later I asked one of them what happened.

      He replied, 'his last clear memory is him laying on the ground with the wood spigot open as he tries to drink the 5,000 liter tank of wine.'.
      --
      "What do you mean its sunrise already ?!", me.
    • JimBlue wrote:

      Back when I was in the US Navy, we pulled into the port for Athens, Pireaus probably misspelled, and took a nice day tour. During the day tour the guide mentoned the Daphne Wine Festival. A wine tasting. Three of the guys went to it. The police brought them back. When asked about charages against them, the Greek police said it happens to everyone. There were 25-28 vats, thousands of liters per vat. You paid about a dollar for a one liter ceramic jug to use as your drinking vessel.

      A couple of days later I asked one of them what happened.

      He replied, 'his last clear memory is him laying on the ground with the wood spigot open as he tries to drink the 5,000 liter tank of wine.'.
      In the words of Dean Martin "You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on."
      Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
    • JimBlue wrote:

      Back when I was in the US Navy, we pulled into the port for Athens, Pireaus probably misspelled, and took a nice day tour. During the day tour the guide mentoned the Daphne Wine Festival. A wine tasting. Three of the guys went to it. The police brought them back. When asked about charages against them, the Greek police said it happens to everyone. There were 25-28 vats, thousands of liters per vat. You paid about a dollar for a one liter ceramic jug to use as your drinking vessel.

      A couple of days later I asked one of them what happened.

      He replied, 'his last clear memory is him laying on the ground with the wood spigot open as he tries to drink the 5,000 liter tank of wine.'.
      I'd like to say I been there, but the truth is I haven't...crazy sailors.
    • Years ago, back when A&E channel had good shows and was showing Evening at the Improv stand up comedy, one guy said his grandpa took him out drinking when he turned 21.

      As they got home he told his grandpa he was really drunk.

      His grandpa replied, 'You aren't drunk until you have to hold on to the lawn so you don't fall off the face of the Earth'.

      As for drunk sailors, guys who had lead sheltered lives were the ones who got wildly drunk and probably got arrested as well.
      --
      "What do you mean its sunrise already ?!", me.